Why Play is so Important for Pets

Announcer: 0:02

Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents learn everything they need to know to have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet. So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk rescue, adoption and pet parenting done right.

Amy Castro: 0:25

If you're a fan of Starlight Pet Talk, you'll love our new line of merchandise. We have t-shirts, hoodies and more, all featuring your favorite podcast logos and designs. Plus, we're offering a limited number of Starlight Outreach and Rescue items where a portion of the proceeds go directly to Animal Rescue. Our merchandise is the perfect way to show your support for your favorite pet podcast and animal rescue at the same time. So what are you waiting for? Just visit our website at wwwstarlightpettalkcom to order your merchandise today. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, amy Castro, and I was thinking this morning about how many of us perceive our pets as being there for us as opposed to us being there for them, and what I mean is we get a dog because we want a companion, or we get a cat because we want something that's low maintenance. But we want a pet, and that's great. I think that animals definitely fulfill a lot of needs for human beings, both physical and mental. But what about their needs? I think that too many times, we think about only their very, very basic physical needs for food, water, shelter and maybe some veterinary care, and we do a pretty good job of taking care of those things. But what about their mental need for stimulation, their instinctive need as a species for certain activities. That's what we're going to talk about today with our guest expert. Catherine Keckle, or Cat the Dog Trainer, is a certified dog trainer who works not only full time with her local county animal shelter, which puts her in a special place in my heart, but she's also a professional dog trainer and a Kong ambassador. And Kong is one of my favorite toy companies and I think it might be for her, especially for those of you who are looking at the video and see all her Kong stuff in the background there. And what's nice about Cat is that she has had the opportunity to work not only with a variety of animals, but with pet owners through every step of the process, from the time that they meet a pet to going through the adoption process and then working with their families after the fact in training situations. So, cat, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with me today. Absolutely Thanks for having me Awesome. So can you give us just a little bit of an overview about what you do at, you know, between the shelter, the Kong ambassador role and then your own training business?

Kat Kekel: 2:45

Yeah, absolutely so. My full time job is I work in my local animal shelter and I get to do all sorts of things there. I've helped from the moment they enter the facility to the moment they get adopted and all the fun spots in between. That gives me a unique aspect of their life, right? So sometimes we get them in as a stray and I don't know any information about this dog. I just have to go on what it's giving me as far as its behavior and stuff that is giving me at the shelter, and then sometimes I do get the benefit of the owner telling me it's got problem behaviors or what have you. So that's nice. I get to get to have all of that, and then I get to see them get adopted. Matching people with their forever family member is a pleasure and an honor that I get to have every day, and then I get to work with them as my side business. I do do training off the side, but that's just to help them from coming to the shelter. A lot of people don't get quality training at a reasonable price, and so that's what I try to do is give people who are in lower income areas who are able to really work with their animal instead of having to turn them into the shelter. And then I get to be a Kong ambassador, which means I get to work with Kong and share in the knowledge that they've given me. As far as the product and how it works and what it's used for and it's origin story and everything, it's great. I use it every day in my house. I use it every day at the shelter. It's wonderful.

Amy Castro: 4:03

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Kong. We've got a lot of Kong toys here, not only, and I think sometimes when people think about Kong they think about just the. You know the traditional Kong. You know the red rubber bouncy Kong that you fill with peanut butter. But they have so many more toys, and especially for cats. A lot of people don't realize they have all kinds of cat toys too. So definitely check those things out. So you know, you mentioned working with people from a training perspective in the hopes to help them avoid returning a pet or giving up a pet. But why is play so important to that process as well? You know why is play so important to our pets?

Kat Kekel: 4:42

So play as it relates to dogs, right, it's something we don't really think about a lot because we don't give our animals a lot of choice, we don't give them that autonomy. You know, every day we decide for them what they're going to eat, where they're going to sleep, what they're. They are and aren't allowed to do what we deem as a appropriate behavior, that, as a dog, they don't see any problem pooping in the house or sitting on top of your counters because they're a dog. Those, for us, are problem behaviors. So play is really important because not only does it help us with those problem behaviors, but it also helps them be mentally stable, relieve stress and just really give them a more mental, stimulated environment, right? So different types of things that we could do for them to make them a more well-rounded, healthy, physically and emotional dog. Right, that's something we don't really think about because for dogs, when they're a year of age, they have the mental capacity of a three-year-old child, so they can think, feel and make decisions. As such, and that's something people don't really know. And the fact that dogs originally, as they became, evolved, if you will, they learned a lot of things from us. They are no longer that wolf that we talk about a lot, they still continue to play, even to their adulthood. So, like a cheetah in their cubs, they play in order to learn to hunt and then they no longer play as adults. Dogs continue to play. So those life stages that we talk about from puppyhood we think, oh, they're just done after they're a year of age. Not necessarily. They continue to play and chew and do those types of behaviors just like humans do, if that makes any sense.

Amy Castro: 6:22

No, it does, and I think we think a lot about that, like you said, through that puppy phase. And same thing with kittens you know we play with them, you're playing with the string, you're playing with the feather toy, whatever it is. And the same thing with the dogs. You know you're throwing the ball, you're using the tug rope, whatever it might be. But then once they get into adulthood, it's almost like with the potty training or with the. Now that you're an adult, we stop playing. We might provide a certain level of exercise for our dogs, like taking them for a walk, but there's a lot of people that just consider letting the dog out in the backyard to potty and they run around as being enough stimulation, and it's definitely not. And so what happens when they're not getting that? Whether it's the mental enrichment or just the burning off steam with play, what happens to that animal over time?

Kat Kekel: 7:12

So you get a dog who can be doing those problem behaviors we talked about, right, so they can start doing the digging and the chewing and the jumping up and from puppy biting to now they're an adult dog and it's real biting. They don't learn how to have appropriate behavior as well as they don't continue to develop cognitively, and that's something that is really important for them is that mental stimulation, stress is also a really big factor. So if you think about it, if you were only given one book a day to read or one television show to watch, you wouldn't really be relieving your stress. You would know exactly the same route over and over and over again, just like your backyard. Right, you put the dog out in the backyard, like you said, and they know the same smell, they know that squirrel was there, they know that. You know I've already peed on this thing and they don't get anything new. So when we talk about exercise and play and enrichment, it has to be varied and it has to be lots of different things. So even as simple as the type of texture of toy, not all toys are the same and they all have different purposes, and that's something that people don't think about a lot they think, oh, I gave my dog a tennis ball or I gave my dog a rope toy and that's great. Those are options. I have a dog who loves the tennis ball. However, that's not all she needs, right? She needs other things to scavenger hunt or do the stuffed Kong, which can be all sorts of different things that you put in it. It doesn't have to just be peanut butter, it can be anything dog safe. My dog particularly likes sweet potatoes, so she gets sweet potatoes and applesauce and sometimes a little bit of canned dog food on top to really get her into it. And then she gets that and I'll hide it somewhere in the yard. So that makes the backyard that was normally something that she's like oh, I've been out here a million times new and exciting. It really branches them out and gets them to do other things. So thinking about it that way, it's not just developmentally wise, it's also stress relieving too.

Amy Castro: 9:09

Yeah, that's such a good point, is that? Yeah, I remember back in the day when I was, when I was thin and I used to run. Yeah, I used to run a lot when I was going to school in Washington DC, because every day, even if, even if I took the same route, there was going to be different people there, there was different activities going on. You know, it's a big, it's a big city, so it's exciting. Move to the suburbs and you know, a friend says why don't we go walking every day? I don't want to walk around the block every day. It's boring, it's the same houses, the same landscaping, we're having the same conversation. We've run out of things to talk about. But if I had an exciting place to do that, you know, and I think that kind of goes back to what I was saying in the beginning is that we realize that for ourselves, for ourselves and for our human children, but yet we're going to our dog's, going to spend its entire life outdoors, just going in our own backyard, and then you wonder why they? You know and we'll talk more about some of the other behaviors in just a minute but makes me think about the fact because I've kind of been guilty of this with my dogs is that when you do put them in the car to take them someplace else, they act like the fool. And it's not because they're bad, or even because they're not trained, it's because they're so darn excited to be doing something different. Exactly.

Kat Kekel: 10:17

Yeah, as simple as putting them in the car is complete. Whoa, you know, you get the dog that's jumping all over the place and scratching people to get on top of them because they're like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen a new person in you know three weeks. We don't think about that. You know how often especially after everything you know as health wise and whatnot how often people really come over to our houses. You know I'm a homebody. Nobody really ever comes over. So when my dogs do go with me somewhere, they go oh my gosh, I haven't seen a human in like three years. What are we doing here? And that's exciting for them. So that's something to think about too. Just giving them new experiences, new things. And it doesn't have to be, you know, you don't have to go out and buy you know 70 different dog toys, right, it just needs to be something as simple as okay, here's two or three new dog toys and we'll rotate them through your week. You know, here's your this week's, and then we pick them up and then here's the next week's and making it a very throughout, or something as simple as dog water bowls. A lot of people don't think about. What do we give our dogs to drink out of. So I personally have more than the average pet owner, because I have a dog who guards water bowls. He is a resource gardener, so we have to manage our environment a little bit. So we have about 15 different types of water bowls. Basically. I have one dog who likes the fountain because he is a shizu and he is a prince, and then I have a cattle dog who purses. She likes her metal water bowl. And I have an Australian shepherd puppy who is in her wackadoo face and she likes to be inside the water bowl. So it needs to be big enough for her to put her front paws in. And that's just how it is right now and that gives them different variety, right, because some of them are not going to want to drink out of the one that the puppy had her paws in.

Amy Castro: 12:03

You know, we just don't think about those things, right? Yeah, I kind of discovered that with my cats too, because, like I said, we're talking a lot about dogs but cats need that same level of variety as well. And I had always kind of taken this approach and I keep my. I do clean my water bowl quite frequently, but when we I just had one big water bowl for everybody, thinking that everybody passes by the kitchen and there's plenty of water in it and it gets changed out frequently. But I kind of noticed that when I got my bulldog Gwenevere, she tended to slobber up the water bowl more than previous dogs that we'd had and the cats just kind of seemed like they maybe didn't like it quite as much. And so I went ahead and got one of those cat fountains and I actually put it well, at first I had it out in the main area and then everybody was using the fountain, so that wasn't working too well because it was making a huge mess. So I moved the cat fountain to my master bathroom and they love that thing and they are constantly like they tell. In the morning when I, when I wake up, I can hear the cats outside the door and the first thing when I open the door, they run in and go straight to that fountain. And it's not that they don't have access to water other types of water they just really like the fountain. Apparently, cats like moving water. I didn't know that before.

Kat Kekel: 13:15

Yeah, people don't think about favorites. You know my dogs have their favorite for bones or toys or spots to lay. I, my cattle dog, will. I have a lot of toys, probably more than the average pet parent, just with my career and she will go in and she will go in her toy bins and she will find the specific toy that she wants, because my dogs have such variety. There are certain textures that she likes that are more unusual, that people don't really think of, right? So bamboo she loves a bamboo too. Kong actually does make one or one that is made out of wood. It's wood put back together, sawdust kind of like. You know, real wood put back together in them. Oh, I have one of those, digestible and safe for them to eat. So instead of them chewing your drywall right, they're chewing the wood. That gives them the same texture and the same flavor as as what they would be chewing. That's not what we don't want, but that's her one of her favorites because it's got a little bit more give to it. So she'll go in there. She'll find it in that big toy bin she digs to the bottom.

Amy Castro: 14:19

Yes, it's funny. Two things. Number one it's interesting how dogs have different needs and what they do with their toys. So I had a dog named Bonnie one time and we had her for nine years before we lost her and she had a stuffed. It was like a white woolly looking. It was almost shaped like a gingerbread man had no face, no, nothing. It was just this woolly person shaped baby and she called her baby and she carried that thing around for nine years and would take it wherever she was laying down, but never, never, chewed on it, never put a hole in it, nothing. And then we get jack, our doberman. You couldn't give him anything stuffed, for in two seconds he would have eviscerated, the squeaker, would be gone, he would have eaten the stuffing and you know, many times got himself in some digestive issues. So we had to kind of stop giving him those kind of toys because of what he was doing. But it's interesting how the same Type of toy, one dog treats it one way and one dog treats another, and again, the light bulb still never went off. It's also funny you said something about chewing drywall, because that literally happened. I was sitting in my living room the other day and my daughter's puppy, gigi, who I think Gigi needs to keep moving on she's. She came in as a rescue and somehow she's not managed to go on the adoption market yet. And Gigi I had a scraping sound and Gigi is standing over in my dining room literally chewing on the wall, like trying to scrape on the wall, and I'm thinking, okay, why is this dog doing this? And then I started thinking about our pre recording conversation when we were planning for this episode. And you know, gigi has this area that she's normally stays in and it's the same toys have been sitting there since the time we've got her. So for the last let's say, three months she's had the same it's a lot of toys, there's probably seven or eight toys but it's the same toys that have been laying on the floor in that area for the entire time and obviously she's Needed something else to do absolutely.

Kat Kekel: 16:21

And types of toys matter, right? So I mean, you were saying the stuff he was good for one but wasn't good for the other and it depends on what we're doing with them, right? So we've got the harder, more textured toys, like the bamboo one or the wood composite, and then you've got the rubber right, like the classic Kong rubber. Well, those come in different types for different life stages of your dog, right? So you've got the classic Kong, which is the one that most dogs are on. You've got the puppy, when they're little puppies and they got their needle teeth. And then you've got the black, which is the hardest one for dogs who do through the drywall, and you need something that they are going to be able to not get through. And then you have the senior right, when your dog is older in their teeth and gums and jaw strength are no longer there, you've got something that's going to be Good for them to still continue to play in those senior golden years, if you will. And, thinking about it that way, you know what's going to be for that type of player. What is that dog like to do? So? My dog is a cattle dog. She is a Cattle dog through and through and she loves to do lure, coursing and chasing and that's something that she just is really good on. So we get those types of toys a toy that I can play with her like a giant cat it's got a really fun fluffy animal on the end and I can wave it like a wand and she can play in that manner. Or Her favorite one is a. It looks like a bear and it's called the cong knots toys and it's got rope inside of a fluffy toy. So there's not a lot of stuffing to it, it's mostly that rope and then the plush. On the outside it feels like bones when they're crushing on bones and so that's something that she loves to take and shake and pull doesn't destroy it, but she enjoys that feeling in her mouth. So the toys have different meaning for different types of dogs. You know there's a predatory sequence in all dogs. It depends on your dog where that predatory sequence stops. So that goes from alerts to point like the pointers, go and grab like the lab. You know the labs with the duck, my dog, which is the run, chase and bite the heel of the cattle, and then the ones that are go all the way, which is the, kill the plush toy and get the phone out and then consume, eat the plush toy. So you have to think of where does my dog's predatory sequence? And then what toys would maybe be better for them versus others?

Amy Castro: 18:40

Yeah, that's a good point. I think you know whether it's knowing the breed if you've got, you know purebred dogs and you know what they've been basically bred to do and then meeting that need for them. But for those of us who have my, you know, might have mixed breed dogs, it's. It's basically experimentation, wouldn't you say? And I think we don't do enough of that. We go, and I know I've been guilty of this. We used to have this dog that used to just wander down the street from us. His name's fish. He's a black lab, and that dog love to play. It didn't matter if you, if you, threw a toothpick, he would chase it. I mean, he just didn't care what it was, he just wanted to go and get it and bring it back to you, and so it was kind of fun, because none of my dogs like to play ball. Well, I've got a chihuahua no, she's not going to chase a tennis ball and bring it back to me and I've got a two third, a two thirds of no, two thirds English bulldog, one third American bulldog. So she's a lot like an English bulldog that she's not much of a runner and you probably don't want her running too much because we've already replaced one ACL. We don't want to replace another one. So if I threw a ball she might run halfway to it and then she's going to abandon it and then we say, okay, well, our dogs don't want to play. Well, no, you just haven't found the right play or the right activity for that, for that animal. So, you know, tried different, and I think that's great. You brought up a variety of things. You know the prey drive that they have, and so giving them something to chase or hunt down, or whether it's just something to love on, or whether it's the retrieving that they like to do, you've got to try different activities. The same goes for cats, wouldn't you say, oh, absolutely.

Kat Kekel: 20:13

I mean with cats, especially you've got. Are they bush dwellers? Do they like to be hello to the ground and hunting down there? Or they treat well as do they like to be up high and catching the butterfly or the bird that goes by. I have my own cat version of that. They watch the squirrels. I have a squirrel feeder and they sit there and they watch and that's that's their enrichment, right? But one of my cats is more into that than the other one. The other one likes to go play with the feather toy in the house. That's her jam. So it really just depends on your type of cat, right? Or your type of dog. I have a senior dog as well, the one who has resource guarding, and he is a mutt. I don't know what he is, but he's an 80 pound mutt and he is a kill consume. He wants to destroy and take out. But it depends on the toy and it depends on the stress level he is at. He's a very anxious, stressful dog and when he is in a more stressful time he will destroy more of the toys because he needs to get that out of the system when he is not as stressed and he's had a better day or he's more relaxed again. He is a senior, so he's got some senior decline in cognitive ability and stuff and you know sundown or syndrome I'm not sure if you're familiar with, where they just kind of get a little wonky at night time sometimes and they just don't know where they are. So he can be a little bit more anxious. In those times he will destroy things more, versus other times where he'll just hold it like a baby and walk around with it in his mouth. A lot of people want to take things away when they start to do those behaviors, because oh, you're destroying the thing that I spent money on and they should not do that. Right, we have this idea in our head that that's, they're only there to play with it and then not not destroy it. And dogs are dogs. We buy these toys so that they can play with them and it's their decision, their autonomy on what they do with it. If they decide they want to destroy it, that's great. It's a more of a monitor toy. Then you have to supervise them and if they start getting pieces off for their safety, take it away. Obviously you don't want them to consume anything, but you've got to let them be able to make that decision. You know, that's something that a lot of people don't do.

Amy Castro: 22:14

Yeah, kind of like when I was a kid I used to cut all the hair off my dolls. I used to drive my mother crazy, but it's like, hey, that's what I found enjoyable to do with them. I didn't want to dress them up and play house, I wanted to cut their hair. That's a whole other subject, but anyway. But that is that is a good point, and I'm glad you made the safety point too, because that's you know. Back to my dog, jack the Doberman. I mean he was definitely an eviscerator. He just was going after that squeaker and you could get the alleged indestructible toy and he'd have a hole in it in 10 minutes and that was fine. And so you realize you're going to make an investment in those kind of things. But I think it is important not to let them ingest too many of the non-ingestible toy parts, because that can get you into some serious trouble at the vet and a big vet bill. So in working at the shelter, when you see like maybe some of the common reasons that people might show up to surrender a pet, can you give an example of some of those and how maybe some better play might have avoided that?

Kat Kekel: 23:10

Oh yeah, so I better toys Right, we get in. You know obviously lots of different, different ones, but our most common, I would say, is not enough time, which usually means it's translated to I don't have enough time for training, play with my dog, paying attention to them. They feel like they may be an inadequate home for that animal, and that's their thoughts and feelings on it, obviously, if that's what they feel. And then moving is another big one, especially with what's going on in the economy and everything people are starting to move and whatnot, they may not have a place for that animal and then just the pet's behavior in general. So they may have behavior problems where the dog is more aggressive towards other dogs or they're having anxiety, separation anxiety, and they can't deal with that because they work 18 hour shifts and, you know, overnight shifts and things like that. That's just not conducive to that type of dog behavior. Gnipping and biting is a big one as well, where they are now adolescent dogs. They're now in the life stage of they're no longer a cute puppy, they're now a bigger, adolescent and they're still biting, they're still causing more damage now that they're no longer a tiny puppy. What I like to say is could we fix a lot of these problems with pre-behavioral work and toys beforehand? Absolutely A lot of those issues could be taken care of. A big one a lot of people don't realize is dog aggression right. You can work with dog aggression if your dog say most dogs with dog aggression not all dogs, obviously, but most dogs have some sort of fear aspect to it where they're afraid of the other dogs which causes that frustration and that get away from me before you get me type behavior. If we can build our dogs confidence up right, because that's a lot of times what it is is it's a low self-esteem, low confidence dog. If we can build their confidence up with puzzle games and a stuffed Kong where they have to, or a goodie bone I don't know if you've seen the goodie bones where they've got little things on the end they have to figure out how to hold it and work their face and try to get their food out those are all building confidence toys and if we can do that we can help build their confidence so they're not as afraid when they're going out for walks and they see another dog. They're not going to act aggressive. It's not a cure-all but it can help some of those more borderline dogs who are starting to show some issues. Maybe they're not as extreme. And you know, freaking out on the end of the leash, that would be an easy fix. Do you know what I mean? And a lot of people don't realize that if they have those things to do, it could even cure something like that.

Amy Castro: 25:39

That and I think proper socialization and I think we could do a whole episode on socializing our dogs especially. But one of the things that I see is the people that you know they get the puppy and the puppy's at home, and especially in these last couple of years with COVID and people being isolated. But even, just like you said, we're more sedentary, we're homebodies, we like being home and so we don't necessarily get our puppies out and about amongst other people and other dogs and so that can cause issues later on. What are your thoughts? As far as you know, things people can do, appropriate things people can do to socialize, assuming the puppy is fully vaccinated. Obviously we want to be safe medically, but socializing with other dogs.

Kat Kekel: 26:28

Oh yeah, so something you don't really think about too. You don't have to make it a big you know or deal. A lot of people think, oh well, we, you know, I need to schedule it and we're gonna go out, we're gonna go to the dog park, we're gonna do the x, y and z and it does not have to be that intense. It could be I'm gonna turn on YouTube to the dog TV channel and it's gonna be dogs playing in a dog park. I didn't even leave my house and my dog can be getting the sounds and and environmental stimulus of if they were in a dog park. You can start simple, like that. You could also take your puppy in your car, drive to the dog park and stay in your car, but roll the window down so your dog can go. If it's, you know, still in that borderline time of fully vaccinated, right, we can still be sitting in our car and looking out the window and seeing the other dogs, right, those are all appropriate and safe things to do when they're really, really young. To start making it not such a novel thing because, like we were talking about earlier, when then it's it's all said novel and we've not seen it, we become the crazy wackadoo and that's something that we can really work on. Super, super early is little places like that, or if you have you know five minutes, you're like you know what? I'm gonna go get a coffee from Starbucks and I'm just gonna make a quick run, put them in the car, drive through. They don't have to get anything when you're there, obviously, but you know, putting them in the car, making that habit, then your dog's gonna go. Oh, we get in the car all the time. We just go places with mom and we sit and people talk to me in the window. It doesn't have to be an ordeal. They may not actually physically touch that person handing you your coffee when you go through the drive-through, but they saw it. It wasn't a negative or a positive experience. It was a neutral experience and it becomes more common. The more we can put in that bank, the better versus well, that one time I saw that that person, I got really, really scared because I went to the vet and I got a shot, or there was a big, loud bang when we went to tractor supply or something. That all can add up in the negative too, if it's so few that we're doing those experiences that's a good point, it, but it doesn't have to be some big plan thing.

Amy Castro: 28:37

It could just be, you know, if you know you're running to Home Depot. I think there's a balance in there too. It's like if your dog isn't well behaved, or if it's not potty trained yet, then you know, does everybody need to be dealing with that at Home Depot? Probably probably not, but that could be part of the part of the progression, can be an opportunity as your dog gets older and is in, you know, better control all around.

Kat Kekel: 28:59

Absolutely. It just depends, yeah, on the dog and, obviously, taking safety precautions into play, just like we were talking about earlier with the toys, taking safety precautions into play. And what I like to tell people when it comes to playing with toys, when it comes to taking your dog and socializing them, is you want to treat every experience as if you're going in the car. Right, if you go in the car, there's a high probability of you getting in a car accident, but we take safety precautions, right, we put our seatbelt on, we look both ways, we use a turn signal. So that's the same goes for when I'm playing with this toy. I'm going to monitor my dog, I'm going to watch my dog. Some people are very afraid of, like hard toys with the, you know, antlers, or even the wood composite shoes, things like that. They become fearful that they may break a tooth, and that is completely plausible. It absolutely could happen, right? But they are designed for dogs to chew, so there is that component in it, right? Because if it was an indestructible toy, a dog wouldn't play with it. So it is designed for the dog to play with it, but that doesn't mean we don't take safety precautions. So something that happens with Kongs and you'll see a lot of times as they scissor bite or they pick at the top part, where they pick pieces of rubber off. Okay, if that's how they chew that Kong, then we need to take that away. Maybe we need to try the a different color, maybe we need to try a bigger size. Or they only get it for when we're using it for this time and we take it away and they don't get it unless we're using it for enrichment or a play, if that makes any sense. So it's all these experiences. We put a safety belt on, we don't just give it to them, or we don't just take them and throw them in the dog park without all their shots.

Amy Castro: 30:33

Well, and that I was actually going to ask you about dog parks. I am kind of opposed to dog parks for a couple of reasons. Number one I don't know that everybody else there has fully vaccinated their pets, whether they're wormed, etc. Etc. And I also based on the fact that I feel like people don't spend a lot of time exposing their dogs to other dogs. That can turn into a dangerous situation. But what about, from your experience, what are your thoughts on taking? Because there's lots of them and they're just building more and more, and there's a lot of people that they do it multiple times a week and it's not only their dog's social thing, it's their social thing too.

Kat Kekel: 31:10

So I used to be a dog park goer myself with my cattle dog and she, when she was puppy, she was fully vaccinated. In my opinion, you can only do with what you feel comfortable with, with what you are comfortable with as far as dog behavior as well, right? So are you up to date on what does this dog body language mean versus that dog body language? What are my emergency plan if there is an altercation, things like that. So proper dog play. So we at the shelter do you play groups with our dogs. It's a good social interaction for them as a stress relieving activity. We only do two at a time, so it's two dogs. We find their match, their play match and we play for usually anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes depending on the set of dogs and their interaction, and we may build up time in that, but starting really small. So it's not a long drawn out process and you want it to be. That's a proper play. That's a good two dogs. You can monitor really well when it becomes 15 dogs. Most places there's a not enough people to proper. Some people take five dogs to the dog park. You know all five of my dogs are going in. There's one person who's going to be part? The person right who's? If there's a dog fight, what are you going to do? There's only one of you. That's not safe. You see that happen a lot of times and a lot of people don't know what to do. If there's an emergency right, there's an emergency are you going to stick your hand right in? Well, most people do. They stick their hand right in to try to grab the collar and pull up. So you have to be prepared if you're going to go. No proper safety protocols. Make sure your dogs are up to date on everything, because it's easy to go and re-dewarm your dog if you start to see something in their stool. But most dogs are on a proper dewormer anyways, with a flea and tick preventative. They have it in them already a long time, so like so you don't really have to worry about that. And as long as your dog is on all of its shots and everything and you and your vet have talked about having those conversations, you know do you think it would be safe for my dog to go to the dog park? Then it's up to you. At that point, are you comfortable with it? So I stopped going when I stopped feeling comfortable at that particular dog park. I had a apartment complex that had a dog park. It wasn't well maintained, but when I was there and I had a group of people who knew what they were doing with their dogs, we scheduled times. We called it our dog park group. We would go at a certain time and my dog had her dog park friends. They all played. They had a great time. Sometimes we would get a new dog into the mix and we would all watch and be on guard and see we all had our leashes in our hands and that happened organically. So it completely is possible to happen. You can get those really good times. You just have to find it. You know, I don't think they're innately all bad. It's just kind of where you sit on the situation. You know how. What's your comfortability level? Are you going to go in flip flops and not know how to take your dog out of a situation that's unsafe in? Are you going to go with tennis shoes and a leash and a safety air horn in case something does happen? An air- horn. Exactly. An air horn I also a great suggestion is a pop-up umbrella, so if there is an issue, you can quickly pop it up and use it as a shield, if you need to in those types of situations, something to break up the fight in a safe manner without injuring any of the dogs.

Amy Castro: 34:37

And I think that's a good point you made is that you can create those opportunities to have a play group. I mean, people do it with their human children all the time. So you know, you find, and we even do that at the house. I find, because here I live on this rescue ranch right and we're in the process of building a dog shelter building, but until then a lot of the dogs are in my house and so I have them housed separately in their little areas when I'm not monitoring them, like right now. But we do let them out in certain pairs because it's like, okay, well, these two are resident dogs, you know, they're going to go out and just do their business. These two are going to want to really get out there and play, and so we'll let them out together and they're about the same size and have about the same energy level and we, you know, we do kind of match them up in that way so that their needs are met. And I think that would be something that would be so easy to do, whether it's reaching out to your friends and just creating those opportunities to get together with your dogs, or even, you know, putting something up on your neighborhood Facebook page if you've got one, or on next door and you know, see if there are like-minded people that want to go and, you know, take the dogs out together. It's, I bet you. There's probably a lot more people like that than we. Then we realize.

Kat Kekel: 35:50

Oh yeah, and having those safety precautions in place, right? So bring your toolkit, bring your stuff that you know where, the proper if you want to call it PPE, like you wouldn't work before you go and creating less places of opportunity for the dogs to get into trouble, right? Don't bring food, Don't bring toys. Have multiple places of access to water, because water at that point is now a resource and you can't have a resource garter in that situation. So it doesn't need to be one water bowl, it needs to be five water bowls so that we don't have an issue. You know, just putting those things into place and you're more likely to have a positive outcome in those situations.

Amy Castro: 36:27

Yeah, definitely, and you made a good point too I want to make sure people didn't miss it too about talking to your vet. I think it's important to let our vets know what kind of lifestyle that we're living with our pets, not only from an activity level but from the vaccination standpoint Like I know for my pets because we do bring in strays, fosters, things like that that are not fully vaccinated my pets probably have more vaccines on board than your average pet who doesn't really go anywhere. If your pet is going out and about and going to a dog park then, yeah, they might have more of a need for routine worming that maybe a dog that only goes out in its own backyard needs. So talk to your vet and let your vet know what you're doing with your dog, where do you go, what do you do, who do you interact with, so that you can have an appropriate preventative medicine plan for your pet. So we talked a bit about puppies and I think people are pretty darn good about having plenty of different toys and playing with their puppies. I thought it was very interesting when you said this the other day in our conversation and you brought it up just briefly before about the needs for play or toys for senior pets, because I don't see like I've got a senior Chihuahua. Her name's Tinkerbell. She doesn't have any toys, at least not tiny enough for her. So why would they still need that? At a senior age, they like to just kind of lay around and sleep.

Kat Kekel: 37:51

So I mean that's a lot of people think right, they're in their golden years, they're just going to hang out and chill and they're not going to do a whole bunch. But you would be surprised on the behavior difference you can have if you start re-engaging your senior dog. So something as simple as getting one of like, for instance, we still have our puppy toys. A lot of dogs are 10 years old and they still have puppy toys which are the harder plastics, the indestructible rated stuff, right, which no toys, indestructible, but you know what I mean. Like the tougher toys. And our dogs have now aged at a point where their jaw muscles not the same they may be starting to take joint supplements. Maybe they've lost some teeth. A lot of little dogs no longer have teeth in their little faces anymore. They've had too many that are gone. So now getting something like a senior Kong, which is a softer rubber, or the senior toys that are softer, plush, right, something, maybe, like you were talking about that Doberman, you had destroyed toys. Well, maybe at 10, 12 years old now they're no longer in the destroying toys phase let's offer them that type of toy again and see what they do with it.

Amy Castro: 39:06

Yeah, and I never did that, which was dumb. I never did that.

Kat Kekel: 39:11

Well, I'm giving them that opportunity again. Do you? Are you going to destroy it now that you're 15 years old? Maybe now you just want to lay your head on it and maybe chew on it, maybe play a little bit of tug, something like dogs. When they're young and their their neck muscles are all strong, years and years of playing something like a game, like tug of war, really takes it out on them. They can no longer do that type of behavior running to play fetch, like you were talking about earlier. That takes a toy on their joint muscles and their ligaments. So now you need to find different types of play that may be more sedentary. One of the best ones is having something that they can just sit in a puzzle toy, the food releasing, like the Kong toy that they can sit and still chew on if they want. Get the food out, because a lot of times that's helps with the initiative to start the play right. Some dogs they're no longer in that play mode anymore. They no longer have that. They don't think that that's engaging anymore because we haven't played with them anymore. So maybe we need something like food to help bring them back to that again, like oh, here's something in this. Let me start chewing, nibbling, playing, rolling. I had a dog who was I want to say he was 17 years old. He had not one tooth in his head and I gave him a senior Kong. He was a Maltese, he was only three pounds. That dog went from laying in his dog bed literally 24 hours a day to getting up and looking at me waiting for his stuffed Kong going hey, I'm ready. Because he still had a tongue, he was still wanting to lick and try to gum at that toy and play and he got more animated. His cognitive ability started coming back. He went from kind of stumbling around when he would get up because he was sedentary for so long to being able to walk a little bit more and being able to make better judgments with his steps because he was thinking again. He was using his brain. People don't realize they still need, even if we can't do things physically with them, we still need to do things cognitively with them. They aren't potatoes. Five minutes of mental stimulation right, five minutes of mental stimulation is equal to a two mile walk. It makes them tired and that's something that we can do with them, even in that old state, even though they're old. We can't take them for that two mile walk anymore, but maybe we can do five minutes of chewing on a senior Kong. You know what I mean.

Amy Castro: 41:35

That's such an excellent. I feel guilty about all the old, because I've had obviously a lot of dogs and even older cats. It's funny I did notice, and I think I mentioned this to you before, is that when we've had kittens come through, then suddenly we bust out the feather toys and whatever, and everybody comes out of the woodwork, even the 13 year old cat's out there. Now she's not running and flipping and leaping into the air like the crazy kittens, but when it comes her way she's given it a bat, you know, and she's given it a swat or trying to grab it with her teeth. And I think that's such an excellent point. We love our animals so much and we want them to stay with us forever. Right, we know that they're not going to. But yet once they hit a certain age where they're not as physically active, like you said, we just kind of let them become a potato. And you could probably, I'm quite sure, increase the not only the quality of your pet's life but the quantity, the length of their life, by keeping them physically moving, like you said, and mentally stimulated, wouldn't you say?

Kat Kekel: 42:40

Oh yeah, and on your cats, right, and they're in that senior time, their joints, from jumping up and down, are no longer the same. We can't play the feather toy and have them jump up or chase down the hallway with the ball. So maybe giving them something like the cat kong, which is something that is there, they can actually sit and just roll it around or hold it and chew and lick out something like churu or canned baby food, that's still hunting for them, they're still hunting that prey and that's going to be a cognitive ability for them to be more inclined and it's not taking its toll on their joints. You know, something that we really want to worry about when they're in their older times is that hurting themselves because they are so old doing those things that they used to do when they were a puppy or a kitten and now we got to think a little bit differently on how we do things with them. But it really can help and extend their lives.

Amy Castro: 43:34

Definitely Well. Kat, thank you so much for being here with me today and for talking us through this process. You know it's a lifetime process of keeping our pets not only playing and exercise but just mentally engaged as well, and I think you've really at least for me have really opened my eyes to the needs of our pets beyond just basic food and water and especially for senior pets. I mean I can't wait to kind of wrap up this podcast and get out there and get those cat congs out for my older cats and think about what little Tinky might want to play with or get involved with, because I just think it would add so much quality to their lives. So thank you so much for sharing such valuable information with us.

Kat Kekel: 44:18

Thank you so much for having me. I hope that everybody can take something, at least a little bit, from the podcast and go home and do something with their pet.

Amy Castro: 44:25

Definitely All right. Well, thank you all for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk and please share this episode with your pet loving friends, because this one in particular, especially for somebody who might have an adult or senior pet and thinks that they don't need to play with them anymore, they will look at how important it really is and hopefully start engaging their pet more and, like I, wrap up the show every week and say if you don't do anything else this week, make sure you give your pets a hug from us.

Announcer: 44:53

You've been listening to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast. We're glad you joined us to gain new insight on the many loving ways to adopt and care for your pets. Be sure to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode, and if you want more information, go to starlightpettalkcom, because your pet can't talk. Join us next time for Starlight Pet Talk.