Holiday Safety for Pets: Tips from an ER Vet

Amy Castro: 0:00

The holiday season is supposed to be about fun, celebrating and spending time with the people and pets that you love, but for many people, rather than finding themselves enjoying time at home, they find themselves at the emergency vet because their pet's got into something that is not normally around the house but happens to be there during the holidays. So if you don't want this to be you, stay tuned. You're listening to Starlight Pet Talk, a podcast for pet parents who want the best pet care advice from cat experts, dog trainers, veterinarians and other top pet professionals who will help you live your very best life with your pets. We also share inspiring rescue and adoption stories from people who have taken their love of pets to the next level by getting involved in animal welfare. My name is Amy Castro, and I'm the founder and president of Starlight Outreach and Rescue and a columnist for PetAge Magazine. I've rescued thousands of animals and helped people just like you find the right pet for their family. My mission is to help pet parents learn all the ways that they can care for, live with and even have fun with their pets, so they can live their very best lives and their pets can, too. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host Amy Castro, my guest today, has been with us before talking about what it's like to go to the emergency vet, but today he's here to share some of the things that pets can get into trouble with over the holiday season. Dr Tyler Sugarman-McGiffen worked as a veterinary assistant and a technician for 15 years before going to vet school. After he completed his undergraduate work in 2010, he attended Western University of Sciences, where he graduated with his doctorate in veterinary medicine in 2015. After his internship, he started working as an overnight emergency veterinarian, where he's enjoyed teaching technicians and veterinary students who rotate through, and he actually even started a podcast for his technicians to help them learn more about the diseases they treat. So, tyler, welcome back to the show.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 1:53

Oh, thank you, Amy. Thank you so much for having me back on.

Amy Castro: 1:55

Well, I immediately thought of you when I thought about how much our pets can get into trouble over the holidays and making emergency vet visits on the holidays, because I personally have gone through that where actually it was my husband's mistake so I made him take the dogs to the emergency vet. But, yeah, we got to have a nice emergency vet visit on Thanksgiving. So I was hoping oh nice, I was hoping to help people avoid some of our pain and not end up at the emergency vet. I actually read an article from a I think it's probably a nationwide kind of emergency franchise, because I've heard the name a lot and I don't want to name them but they said something about a 372% increase in Christmas Eve emergency vet visits due to chocolate, and I know chocolate is not the only thing that pets get into. Absolutely yeah, why does it happen so much at the holidays as opposed to the rest of the year?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 2:50

Yeah, I feel like that's because there's a lot of people who are coming in around the holidays. You think throughout the rest of the year you don't have a lot of people who are visiting and then suddenly, during the holidays you have a lot of people who are visiting, or you have a lot of people are going out of town a lot, or they're going to other people's houses and leaving their pets alone. So I think that we just have it's just the circumstance of having so many people clustered. That kind of happens.

Amy Castro: 3:14

Okay, yeah, I remember one incident when I was a kid it was also on Thanksgiving where my mom had taken out a stick of butter and was letting it soften on the counter and suddenly it was gone and she thought to herself. I remember her saying well, I thought, for sure I must have just forgotten to take it out. So she went and got another stick of butter. Lo and behold, it turns out our golden retriever, who normally there wasn't stuff sitting out on the counters, but he decided to help himself to not one but two sticks of butter. And it didn't end up in the emergency vet, but it certainly caused a lot of problems over the next few days.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 3:52

I'm sure there was a lot of diarrhea cleanup. Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

Amy Castro: 3:58

You had also mentioned in Because we kind of were corresponding back and forth about this, about house guests leaving things out. You know, maybe having people at your home where they're not used to, having a dog that can reach the counters or that kind of thing.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 4:10

Exactly. Yeah, so you're saying, you know they either have a small dog who can't usually reach the counter, so they just leave things out, or maybe they have a dog that does usually eat lots of people food, but your dog doesn't eat people food. So having guests over can be really hard too, because they're just not quite used to the house rules. Or maybe they even don't have a pet and so they don't understand like not letting the dog outside during certain times, or how to keep the dog safe inside the house or when not to approach the dog. But I feel like there's a lot of factors around that too, and people are all coming together. People leaving food out is a big one, right. Or they want to make friends with the pet, like with the dog, so they want to give them lots of table scraps, or they want to just be really nice because they're like oh, it's Thanksgiving, we should share all of our food as they want to share that food with the dog, but that becomes a big problem as well, because, especially if that pet is not used to having people food, that could definitely cause things like pancreatitis, which is an inflammation of the pancreas, or it can cause what we call gastroenteritis, which is basically just like vomiting and diarrhea. And again, you don't want to have to end up in the emergency room because your dog has not stopped vomiting for 24 hours. So definitely like having people over, trying to talk to them about just the rules of the house. Please don't give them these foods. This is why we don't want to end up in the emergency room when we should be all celebrating and I think that people are really receptive to that or just letting them know, like my dog is very anxious, I don't want to let out of the room, or please make sure you close the door so my cat can't get out because my cat is an indoor cat. So I do think that as long as they understand one of the repercussions of it, that people are a lot more receptive to those things.

Amy Castro: 5:59

Yeah, that's a good point, and whether you're you know whether because we're doing a lot of episodes right now around the holidays, so we're you know we've got an episode that's going to be coming out about should you get a pet sitter or should you board your pet. We've got one about taking your pets to family with you. And I think what you said as far as the house rules and knowing, knowing what the rules are, I think it is important that we make that really clear to people. I also think, too, it probably the problem kind of multiplies exponentially based on the amount of people, because I can imagine a scenario where somebody's thinking to themselves I know she said don't give him any table scraps, but it was just a little Well, when you and 15, you and 15 other people gave just a little. Now now, now the dogs had half a turkey and it's probably not so good.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 6:46

Exactly, exactly. You know, some of the other things too is when you have house guests staying over, you know, sometimes they'll bring things that you may not think about. Like, I do have a lot of THC toxicities, so a lot of people bring pot over for the holidays so that they can have fun. Yeah, but that becomes a big problem because then, especially if you as the pet parent don't know that it's there and then you just suddenly start seeing your pet look like they're drunk, that could be a big problem too. So, even like just laying out those kind of rules too, because, again, like, you'll have people who just bring it over in their pocket but then it falls out right and then suddenly, suddenly, the pet is acting pretty, pretty weird.

Amy Castro: 7:26

Yeah, and that kind of thing can happen. Unfortunately, I have a friend and colleague who her husband had left some heart medication. I don't know if it fell on the floor or if it was on the side table or whatever it was, but I mean her dog actually died from ingesting that medication because it was such a little dog and it was obviously devastating. Yeah, it was devastating to everybody involved. So I think that is a good point. And I actually had that happen the other day. I had something sitting, it had come in the mail and it's you know. I had it sitting on the side table and I thought, you know, probably nobody's going to touch it, but you just never know, especially for never know, yeah, yeah. Somebody just gets curious and grabs that bottle and the next thing you know they've eaten the whole thing. So that's a good point. I think you know one of the things that I always try to tell guests for, not only for my pet safety but for the safety of their stuff is, you know, put your stuff in the guest room and just close the door. Exactly that way I don't have to worry because we've got foster pets and we've got pets that, especially cats. Sometimes cats just don't like the way other people stuff smell.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 8:23

And the next thing, you know, my cat my cat's pee in your suitcase Exactly, and you know that's sort of embarrassing when you've got a guest.

Amy Castro: 8:30

So yeah, keep that kind of stuff closed out. You had mentioned, too, that a rise in euthanasia, I know, and people don't like to hear about that, but what's that about over the holidays? Is it related to these indiscretions or something else?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 8:43

It's usually not Well, yes and no. So it can be because related to the indiscretions, because, you know, a lot of people spend a lot of money during the holidays, especially Christmas time, right? So you're spending a lot of money on Christmas gifts and then suddenly something happens, like they get into something and then they aren't going to have enough funds then to, let's say, maybe they ate their guest socks, you know, and then they don't have enough money to like do the surgery to remove the sock. So it can definitely be like those kind of things. So you will have a lot of financial things that we have to euthanize pets over. Or it can just be because they you know their kids are coming home and so they just want the kids to say goodbye one last time from college before they all go to euthanize their pets. So I feel like there's a lot of just like circumstances Again, like we just have a lot of people coming around and so people will want them to have like one last goodbye because they just feel like it's their time. So we'll have a huge rise in euthanasia. It's like I'll usually do, you know. I know, again, like people don't really like to hear about it, but typically like. I usually do six to eight euthanasias a night, and during the holidays I usually do about 15 a night. So it's quite a rise, yeah.

Amy Castro: 9:49

Well, that's got to be taxing on you and your staff as well. You know, here it's supposed to be this happy time of the year and yet you know that's a lot of sorrow that's associated with that. So, yeah, but I mean I can understand it to a certain degree that people would want to. You know, if you've got, especially if you've got kids that have gone off to college and they basically were raised with that animal, to not be there is probably really hard. Yeah, you know it brings lots of the holidays, brings a lot of challenges into the journey.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 10:16

Lots of emotions, right yeah.

Amy Castro: 10:18

Yeah, for sure. So beyond, obviously you know food, lay those ground rules down. Don't go haywire with giving your pet a bunch of foods that they shouldn't eat. Obviously, the different kinds of foods that people tend to get into, you know the common foods, but are there any in particular that you think that maybe people like we all kind of know about the chocolate thing?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 10:38

Right, and yet please don't feed chocolate. Right, exactly.

Amy Castro: 10:42

Beyond that, what are some of the things that you see the pets coming in for?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 10:46

Yeah, so one I think around Thanksgiving time. The number one is turkey. Like we think about turkey actually being really not a very fatty turkey, right, Like you don't think about turkey meat in general being fatty, but think about everything that you put into that turkey to make it taste better. You know people are injecting it with butter, You're putting in all the stuffing, you have tons of seasoning on the outside and that now becomes a very spicy or very spicy to. The dogs are not used to that. Right, Lots of fat filled turkey. It's no longer a really lean type of bird, so I feel like people often feed that again because they're just like. Well, I want to share this with my pet because it is now Thanksgiving and I feel like we should share these things. So like those kind of things. Lots of gravy People put like if I had people pour gravy all over their dogs food.

Amy Castro: 11:31

So like, well, like again sorry, I have to laugh at that, because all that is is fat and flour. It's a fat right, exactly. Dog does not need that.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 11:39

Exactly. And then like potatoes and stuff like usually, again, potatoes aren't a big deal, but when you've now put tons of butter and stuff in them that becomes much bigger of a deal. Or people who decide not to do turkeys and things like roast beef again is kind of a more fattier thing. Again, you're putting lots of fat on it, you're putting gravy on it, it's like those tend to be like a lot of the ones that I see that people will get during Thanksgiving time and then during Christmas. I find a lot of it is chocolate. So people tend to bring chocolate over for their, for the kids in the family and extended family, and then they leave it out and then the dog gets to it. Or also, another food is going to be the bones that people get for presents. So there's two types of those. So one is like those big bones that they find like pets, martin stuff, right, oh yeah. But we think again, like bone, you're like well, bone isn't very fatty or anything, but the marrow of the bone is extremely fatty. And so you give them, like this big bone, and now they have just all of that fat on the middle and then they get pancreatitis from that as well. Wow. Or the bones that are the round ones you're like, they kind of have like the inside that's cut out. So the dogs tend to get stuck around their jaw and then it goes around between their yeah, between their teeth and their jaw. And then they got to come in because I have to either, like, put them under sedation to slip it off, or have to cut it off, depending on how big it is.

Amy Castro: 13:01

Oh, wow, yeah, so it's not even just the what we traditionally think of. Is, you know, ingesting bones, although that you know that I'm sure is an issue too. Is that you know? I kind of feel like people have learned, but they haven't you know. So, yeah, that you know you probably shouldn't give your dog bone, is there? Does it really matter? I've read some things that said that it's OK as long as the bones aren't cooked, or does everything potentially pose a danger?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 13:26

Exactly Everything potentially poses a danger. So they say when it's when it's cooked that it can splinter more. But I've definitely seen it splinter even just when it's not cooked. I've even. You know, yes, it does probably splinter a little bit more when it's cooked, but also when it's not cooked that it's harder and gets like stuck between like their teeth and stuff. It really just depends. So I feel like neither one is a great option for that. And if you are giving them bones, I think just like really really monitoring them to make sure that they're not eating too much, they're not just swallowing the whole piece down, because I've definitely seen a dog do that and I've had to get it out of the, out of the esophagus.

Amy Castro: 14:03

So yeah, I would think a lot of this might have to do with just knowing your dog's habits, because some dogs you know and it's the same thing with toys, right, you know some. I had a. I had a little dog named well, she wasn't that little, but I had a dog named Bonnie that had a stuffed toy that was, you know, her baby. She had that baby the whole time and never, it would never have crossed her mind to tear that baby up. And I've got other ones. You give them something. In five seconds later they've torn it up and eaten all the stuffing.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 14:29

So kind of knowing this squeaker and yeah, exactly.

Amy Castro: 14:33

So knowing knowing your pets habits with some of this stuff, I would think would make a difference.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 14:37

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like in, like you were saying, with the stuffing and stuff too, right Again, that's another toy that you tend to get for Christmas, but if you know that your dog destroys it, it's probably not a good idea to get that.

Amy Castro: 14:49

Yeah, yeah, and I had mentioned two things. Well, the one I did I was very aware of it and knows it's very bad is the xylitol. So that's the sugar free sweetener that's in a lot of products, and what kind of trouble does that cause for our pets?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 15:05

Yeah, so typically like you'll find them under things that say sugar free, and not everything that sugar free has xylitol in it. So you do just have to look on the back of the package for it to see like what it says. But what happens is depending on the dose that they get. The first thing that usually happens is they get hypoglycemia, which just means that they have really low blood sugar, like so low that it could potentially cause seizures. It's really really low. The second thing that it can potentially do is cause liver failure. So those liver values will rise depending on the dose that they got. And as long as we can get to it early enough and try to help protect them, most of the time they'll do okay. But it's those ones that we don't know that they got into it and then, because you can skip that hypoglycemic phase, you can skip the seizure phase and just go right to liver failure. Those are the ones that become a lot more deadly because we don't know that they had had gotten into it or we don't know that it had, it didn't have that phase and we just went right into the liver failure and then they become really sick really fast.

Amy Castro: 16:03

Wow, yeah, and yeah, it could be something that I mean, such as probably with a small, especially with a smaller dog, a relatively small amount. You don't even realize they've gotten into anything. Exactly. Yeah, you had mentioned another one was macadamia nuts, and that kind of surprised me, because dogs can eat peanut butter and a nut to not right, not, apparently not Right, apparently not yeah, so macadamia nuts actually cause them to have this temporary paralysis, so they'll come in and they just seem like they're completely paralyzed.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 16:31

And you know, for certain dogs like corgis and stuff like, the first thing that comes to my mind is going to be that they have a back problem. But unless we know that they had gotten into macadamia nuts or you start seeing it come out in their stool, as soon as it starts coming out in their stool, miraculously they're cured. Oh wow, they are no longer paralyzed again.

Amy Castro: 16:49

That's incredible so no, no long term effects from that, then or usually no long term effect.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 16:55

Luckily, usually as soon as they, as soon as those macadamia nuts are out of their system, they're usually fine.

Amy Castro: 17:00

Okay.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 17:01

But one other one, though, that we haven't quite mentioned yet has been onions and garlic.

Amy Castro: 17:05

That's what I was going to get there, cause I thought people don't. People put garlic on pet food and I've never done it to like, put garlic on pet food to repel mosquitoes and fleas, right, or am I making that up?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 17:15

Oh no, this is, yeah, that's definitely a widespread thing on the internet, and so there are dose dependent things. So you, they can have a small amount of it, but how do you know like you'd have to really research exactly how much they can get into, especially when you're doing things like cooking for like Christmas and Thanksgiving and stuff you are, you are not worrying about. You know how much garlic and onions and stuff you put into each meal, right, like you're just cutting them up frantically to make the meal so with those, that it can actually cause I was called hemolytic anemia, but it basically means that their red blood cells they're not working anymore. They almost explode in a sense, so they can't work anymore and they have a loss of red blood cells. Red blood cells are very, very important because we need them to be able to carry oxygen around the rest of our body, and so they'll. They again can become sick pretty quickly and it's not right after they've eaten it, like it'll be within about like 24 to 72 hours usually, that they're going to start getting sick.

Amy Castro: 18:07

Yeah, Well, and I would think with many of these things, as you start talking about the impact other than possibly the macadamia nuts and how quickly those pass through the body is that it's not a matter of you're going to run to the emergency vet and then be home that time. You know in time to open your presence that night, your pets going to be in the hospital for days and days, right, yes? Yes For most of these, if they survive at all.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 18:28

Right, yeah, exactly, for a lot of these it's days and days, you know, maybe not so much the bone that they got around stuck around their jaw and stuff, but a lot of these. Yeah, the getting into garlic and onions, some of the pancreatitis ones are so bad that they have to be hospitalized. Eating the object ones are usually going to have to be hospitalized, so it's not, it's not like a quick turnaround, unfortunately.

Amy Castro: 18:47

Yeah, so it may seem like a hassle to again laying down these rules and monitoring everything, but it's well worth, obviously, the life of your pet for sure, but just think about the expense and just the impact to your holiday and your family visit. Definitely worth a little vigilance, for sure, right, exactly, yeah, so beyond the food items and the bones, what other things? Because one of the things that I thought about was cats eating tinsel. But beyond that, what are some of the other things that you pull out of pets at the holidays? Or, yes, fine, coming out of pets at the holidays?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 19:23

Yeah, tinsel is a big one for cats, right, because they're like so shiny and fun and they want to play with it, even their toys that they get so like all those toys on strings. I pull out a lot of strings from cats. Nerf bullets that's another really popular one in cats is those kids that, yeah, they get Nerf guns and then they shoot the Nerf bullets and then the cats eat them. And the hard part with those is because they're foamy, they expand and so they almost always get stuck All right. One of the other things I forgot to mention to food is corn cobs. Corn cobs is another big one that I find because those can be really dangerous and they can just like roll around in the stomach for months to years.

Amy Castro: 19:59

Oh, wow.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 19:59

Yeah, and then also with cats, like the ribbons that people use to tie their presents and stuff. They'll often eat the ribbons and then they get what's called linear foreign bodies from those. It's just where it goes from, like the stomach, all the way down through their intestines because that ribbon is so long that they ate.

Amy Castro: 20:17

I would think that at first thought or first glance, you would think OK, a piece of tinsel, let's just say so. It's maybe 14 inches long and it's really skinny. It's not sharp. Why does that not just pass through? Is it because they're eating a pile of it, or does it get wound up somehow? What causes that problem or blockage?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 20:38

So a couple of things. Sometimes it gets wound up to like a knot and then that knot gets stuck in the stomach and the stomach is really large versus your intestines are really small. So you're going from like a really big opening to a really tiny opening. So that knot gets stuck where it goes from the big opening to the small opening and then all the rest of it, that's just kind of in this line, gets pulled up into the intestines. The intestines is constantly moving and it's kind of like makes it almost like an accordion, so it just like keeps scrunching up onto itself to the point to where it's almost cutting through the intestines because it cannot move anymore. Oh, wow, the other things that can happen too, is it's not just that it can get knotted up and stuff. Maybe it gets wound up in something else. Another common thing for cats to get into is going to be hair ties, and especially when people leave their hair ties around the house or their guests leave their hair ties and cats love those hair ties so it can get wound up around other things like hairballs, hair ties, other objects they might have eaten, plastic, things that might have already, that would have possibly gone through, like the hair and the plastic. They'll still wind up in this like ball and then make it to where the rest of that tinsel can't come down.

Amy Castro: 21:47

Yeah, and it's funny because I don't I generally don't think of cats as eating stuff like that, but we actually had a cat that came into the rescue and and it wasn't a holiday related thing, but he had the like an entire, almost an entire baby bottle nipple. Yeah, and it's like, why would they? I mean, I guess I could understand why they would want to lick that, but to eat the whole.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 22:10

Thing.

Amy Castro: 22:11

It's just, it seems like such a dog thing, but cats are at risk as well.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 22:15

Exactly.

Amy Castro: 22:17

Okay, so we got to keep an eye out for those foreign bodies that they might ingest. What about holiday plants that we need? To watch out for.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 22:25

So plants, you know, one of the ones that I think is kind of a bad rap is poinsettias. So poinsettias like they can have in the house. But the thing is like when they do like lick them or bite on them, it does cause them to have an upset stomach. So it does cause them to have like vomiting, diarrhea, not wanting to eat for maybe a day, but usually after that they're okay. Typically they don't have to come into the hospital for those things, but one that is a really big problem is lilies, especially in cats. Lily toxicity can cause them to go into really bad kidney failure, and so they'll typically have to be hospitalized on IV fluids for those things. Oh, wow, yeah, for our dogs typically it's going to be raisins and grapes. You know I don't have a lot of grapes around these this time of year, but raisins there's actually a lot of raisins that people have.

Amy Castro: 23:10

Yeah, you know putting it in stuff. Think of that beautiful.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 23:12

Christmas fruit cake. Exactly, exactly, right.

Amy Castro: 23:15

I guess it has raisins in there.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 23:17

I don't know, I think it does, I don't know, but I know that they get it a lot in like stuffings and stuff that people will put raisins in there, so, yeah, so a lot of raisin ingestions as well. So trying to make sure to keep those kind of things away from them Because again, raisins like lilies will cause kidney failure in our dogs.

Amy Castro: 23:34

Okay, wow, yeah, and again, seemingly such an innocuous little nothing, but not for our pets, exactly. Um, what other household hazards do we have I feel like I've always worried about? I have friends that have bunny rabbits and bunny rabbits like to chew on wires and things like that and getting shocked. I don't know if it'd be electrocuted or could they get shocked if they're chewing on wires.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 23:56

Yeah, it's basically electrocuted, and that's really common, especially around Christmas season, because think about how many Christmas lights we put up and stuff right, and then all those nice little wires that they like to chew on so they can go over. And a lot of times you won't even notice because if they're doing it when you're not home, they'll become electrocuted from it. So I always suggest like pulling, like unplugging everything if you're not watching your pets, so that way they don't get electrocuted. The big problem that that causes people will think that their hair just flips up and that's it.

Amy Castro: 24:24

Right, that's what you think of about electrocution, yeah, like the cat cartoons, you know.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 24:29

Exactly, but it's actually a lot more dangerous than that. It can actually cause fluid to build up in their lungs and can make it to where they can't breathe. So if you start to notice a cat that can't breathe, it happens to dogs as well. I just feel like it happens more often to cats. But if you have one that cannot breathe around this season, like that's one of the things I'm going to ask you, is there any way that your pet could have chewed on some sort of wire, and can you please go home and check all the wires to see if that's a possibility? Because it looks very much like the same pattern on an X-ray as a heart failure patient. That's what I need to know the difference between is this a heart failure patient or is this that it got electrocuted?

Amy Castro: 25:06

Wow yeah, and you'd think you'd notice that. But it can happen, you know, happen really quickly and you're not in the room and suddenly the Christmas lights are out, maybe, and you think, oh, it just burnt, a ball burned out, or something like that Exactly.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 25:19

Exactly. And speaking of, the Christmas tree too, like that's another big one. You know the Christmas tree. I've had one, this one family. They had gotten a kitten and about two days after Christmas they came in with a broken leg because the Christmas tree fell on it. And I think it's like, yeah, yeah, so you can. So just like securing the Christmas tree, you know the best you can to make sure that that way, because cats really like to climb Christmas trees, so make sure that they can't fall from it and that they can't knock the tree over with them.

Amy Castro: 25:47

Yeah, I've seen some interesting and I don't know that you'd want to do this. I think it'd probably be easier to just secure the tree or find some other alternative to the way you're doing your tree. But I've seen people it was either a video or a picture on the internet of somebody that basically built this giant dog cage around their Christmas tree to keep the animals away from it.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 26:04

But, yeah, it's a good kid to turn to. Yeah, there you go, there you go.

Amy Castro: 26:10

I think one of the things that I know that we've done in adjusting the tree over the years number one we've got a really big base on it, so that helps with it. But also, really just thinking about the ornaments that we put on there, it's like inevitably somebody's going to get up there and try to knock it off. So up to a certain height all the stuff is nonbreakable, Right Exactly. And then the nicer stuff where nobody's, because nobody's going to be climbing. Then maybe we'll put those things up a little bit higher so as not to have somebody cut themselves with glass or things like that.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 26:40

And you don't think about the dogs and stuff eating the Christmas light, christmas ornaments off the tree, but they do, definitely People who have come in and they're like their dog's mouth is all cut up because they were just chewing nonstop on this Christmas ornament.

Amy Castro: 26:53

So yeah, yeah, I actually my daughter was saying something the other day, and it's obviously it's not Christmas yet, but we were going through some, we had to do some work in our attic and so we took down everything and figured it was a good opportunity to go through and say, okay, you know, because I tend to hold on to things, thinking she might want it someday, kind of thing. And now it's like, okay, if I was, if I die, are you going to throw this away? Well then, let's just get rid of it Because we're the one of us. And anyway. So two days later, the dogs playing with this snowman on the ground and it was a little stuffed thing that it turns out. It was like a collectible ornament, but apparently not anymore. Now it's a dog toy. But even things like that that seem like it's relatively, would relatively be safe. I mean, it's not sharp or whatever. It's not meant to be a dog toy. So you know, you never know what it's stuffed with or how easily it could be ingested, and so you've got to be careful with those kinds of things. Exactly, you'd also mentioned batteries, like again, another thing is like, why would anybody eat that? But kids eat them, dogs eat them. Why? And again you might think, okay, well, wouldn't if my dog ate a tiny little button battery or watch battery, would they not just pass through? Or what kind of problems can those cause? Yeah, I have a whole episode on this.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 28:06

But, yes, the button batteries. So the button batteries are definitely the some of the worst ones. So what happens, especially like the bigger batteries? A lot of times the dogs like put punch or a hole into it and that can cause a lot of like acidity so it causes all stomach to become a giant ulcer. Essentially oh wow, it causes them to have vomiting. It causes them to have problems with their red blood cells Like this. Those are really bad and they're really easy to see on an x-ray versus your little button batteries. People don't think about them missing. They're like oh, it's just fell, I'll find it later, you know so it's down the sofa cushions. Yeah, it's down the sofa cushions, exactly. So I feel like those are a little bit harder because they do the same things, like they don't even have to bite into them to get it to that that stuff to release, and actually it's just from even just ingesting it causes that those little batteries to erode. And then we have all of these problems in the stomach and the small intestines and they're still easy to find on an x-ray. They're a little bit harder sometimes, just depending on how big they are, but they're really metallic and really easy to see on an x-ray. So I always tell people like if you have any doubt that you cannot find that battery, just bring them in to get one x-ray. You literally need one x-ray to be able to tell if there's a battery in there.

Amy Castro: 29:15

Oh, wow, yeah, and probably well worth figuring that out.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 29:19

Yes, yes, figure it out now, before you have a huge medical problem on your hands, you know.

Amy Castro: 29:24

Yeah.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 29:25

Yeah, and then some of the other things too, like you mentioned, like some of the plant stuff too. So the things to talk about. There is also mistletoe. Those kind of things can actually cause an upset stomach as well. Usually it doesn't necessarily have to be something that they get brought in for, because most of the time people aren't putting out tons of mistletoe, but if there is, if there is like in a situation where they did actually eat a lot of it, I always recommend just calling the ASPCA or Pet Poison Helpline about it, because some of them will just cause them to have an upset stomach, but some of them can cause some other things like heart arrhythmias, so it can make their heart not beat correctly. And that's really dose dependent. And that's a really hard one, because we have a lot of toxicology books that we could look into like okay, this is the dose for, like, let's say, an onion. This is how many onions your dog would have to eat to cause a problem. But mistletoe and stuff is a little bit different. There's not really like a page in our book that says this is how much they'd have to eat. So it's a lot better for the experts to look into that to know how much they'd have to eat to cause those things like arrhythmias.

Amy Castro: 30:24

Well, my guess would be that most people would not have. It was kind of like my dog eating the butter that time. It's like you know how many sticks of butter did he actually eat?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 30:33

Exactly.

Amy Castro: 30:34

I mean that was relatively easy to count. But the dog gets into stuffing. How much onion was in the stuffing and how much did he or she ingest is going to be a little bit dicier to kind of figure out. Yeah, exactly. What about just general pet safety? You had mentioned things about pets. You know being careful with the doors and things like that, especially if you've got people who are maybe their pets better behaved and doesn't run out the door, or maybe they don't have pets and so they don't have, you know they don't think about shutting that door. I know we run into that a lot around here when we have people coming in. Even sometimes I'll like I'll hire somebody to come clean before the holidays and it's like nope, you can't just leave that front door open as you're going back and forth to the car to bring your stuff in, because half these critters will be out the door before you know it, and there. I got a blind cat sitting right here and she'll be the first one out the darn door. It's like no, ma'am, you do not need to be out the door. I mean, other than telling people please shut the door, please shut the door, please shut the door. Any suggestions that you have to keep our pets safe from escaping over the holidays?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 31:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, one thing I say is, you know, when you do have people who are going in and out of the house, like even having up the baby gates, that can be a really good reminder to them. Like I have to shut the baby gate, which means I have to shut the door, right, because if you don't have some some second blockade there, then they just don't think about it. So I think that having a baby gate can really help with that and it doesn't need to be there all year. You know, like I said, pretty much just like, if you have people coming in and out of the holidays, have a little baby gate there, super easy. So that way it just reminds them that they need to shut that door.

Amy Castro: 32:02

I was going to say too, we might investigate, instead of the old school kind of wooden baby gate that has that little arm that latches it, the one we got gates all over this place. And it's like it's like going to a prison, but it's. We've got one in particular that I really like that has some type of a spring mechanism so when you open it it's going to shut. I mean it doesn't latch super securely but it shuts enough that if the dog pushed on it it's going to latch and they're not going to go out the door. So that you know, maybe even just making sure that you have baby gates that have that. Or I know that we used to have a spring device on the door to our garage because it was. It was a thing about accessing, being able to access the swimming pool, but it was just. It was just a standard little thing that went in any door hinge. I bet you could probably get those, for I'll investigate that and put that the show notes. But you know something that will automatically shut the door, at least shut it most of the way, so that it's not just blazingly wide open.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 32:56

Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah. And if you're like, I just know my dog will jump over that or my cat can escape through the little bars or something, and it might just be like keeping them into another room, you know, keeping them in a room where it's nice and quiet. I usually suggest putting on some sort of white noise or something for them so that they don't get so anxious about the party that's happening out there and all the people and noises and stuff. So I might just be like putting them into a room that nobody else can go into, you know, and I always tell them to put a sign on the door too that says like, please do not enter your dog, stay in common here, whatever. Just something to kind of dog's having his own party.

Amy Castro: 33:29

Exactly no people allowed.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 33:31

No, people, exactly yeah.

Amy Castro: 33:34

And I think that's probably just, you know, a good practice anyway, just to have a place where your pets can go and chill out and get away from the from the holiday chaos. I know that's something, something we always stress. You know, some people are very against giving pets for the holidays, and that's a whole nother subject for a whole nother podcast episode. But you know, I think, in the right circumstances. If you know, if a family decides that that's when they want to get a puppy for their kids. One of the things or a kitten you know as a rescue is that we always talk to people about making sure that they have a place because, yes, we'll do the excitement at the door, I'll come dressed, I'll put a sand hat on, but then you can't just drop that kitten in the middle of the living room and expect that you're going to go on with your day. So we give them pretty particular guidance on how they can set up an area to put that animal and you know you can go visit it throughout the day. But you know they need time to settle in. Yeah, they got a fresh roommate.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 34:26

And like, the scary thing is that you don't even think about. You know, you think about all your friends coming over and maybe they're very like, they love people like my dogs love people but they don't like noise, you know. So if there's, you just don't know what situation they're going to be put into. That some loud noise happens, some person tends to be next to them or some person just opened the door when that loud noise happened and then they escape or they bite somebody and it's not again. It's not because they're a mean dog or anything or a mean cat, they just got really scared at that moment and it's a fight or flight thing, you know, right, yeah, so definitely like keeping them somewhere that's going to be safe for them. Yeah, for sure. If they do get out some of the things to think about too, we're going to be like making sure you have a caller on them. You know, a lot of times people don't have callers on them because they're like, well, they never get out, they never go anywhere, especially cats. Right, that's fine. But if you know you're going to have a lot of people over purposely put those things on them so that way they have an easy identification. You know they can. If they get found, then somebody can find a phone number, call you quickly and be able to get your pet back to you as fast as you can, right, yeah, the other thing too is sometimes they get them off. My cats are one of my cats. I don't know, she's a Houdini Like. I don't even know how she does it, she's able to get them off every time. But those situations like I have each one of them microchipped, everybody is microchipped, so that that way if a person isn't there found they don't have their caller, somebody can take them to a vet hospital to see if they have a microchip and be able to call me so I can get them back as soon as possible.

Amy Castro: 35:53

Yeah, and something to think about too. If you do find a pet, realize that if it is the holidays, obviously you can go to an emergency veterinary hospital that's open, but also check other places Rescues I am a weirdo. If I ever get pulled over and my purse is searched, somebody's going to think of some strange things going on at my house. But I almost always have a microchip scanner in my purse, so you know you can also check with rescues. Some pet stores, if they're open you know sometimes they're open. I know one in our vicinity they're at my recommendation are looking at purchasing. You know at least one scanner, because people come in at 8.30 at night when the vet's closed and maybe they don't want to drive to the emergency vet and they can get it scanned there. I would also like to say about microchips too, and we're going to say this on multiple episodes Again, this time of year is make sure your microchip is up to date.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 36:44

Yes, and remember you know right phono.

Amy Castro: 36:47

We run into that a lot. It's like, yeah, it's got a chip and it belongs to this guy named Tyler, but Tyler hasn't lived at that address and that's no longer his phone number and now we can't get him back to you. But I also think what you said about the collar is important too, because I think sometimes people think oh well, it's OK because my pet is chipped. Well, if the person you know, if there's no place to get the animal scanned for a chip, and it might take yeah, they'll let them go, or you know, they might have them four or five days and now you're worrying about your pet for four or five days. I actually thought about that the other day. We took in a tortoise at the rescue and we did find his family. I started thinking, you know, I wonder if there's. I know that their shells are a living thing, but they're like if somebody could just figure out a safe way to put a phone number on the tortoise.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 37:33

Yeah, I somebody etch it. I feel somebody like do a laser etching into the tortoises shell.

Amy Castro: 37:39

And because they escape a lot.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 37:40

Yes, they do.

Amy Castro: 37:42

I had the tortoise for less than 24 hours. An animal control called me and said well, I've got a person. I'm pretty sure it's their tortoise, but if it's not, it's not their tortoise, it's this other person's tortoise. It was neither person's tortoise, it was a third person. Like how many tortoises?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 37:55

are running around? Yes, a lot.

Amy Castro: 37:58

They're sneaky little, sneaky little buckers. They are really sneaky and I'll say so.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 38:02

I used to have a little turtle myself and I would take him to the nearby school to let him just kind of like roam around and be in the grass, and the first time I took him there I lost him because I didn't realize how fast they were or that they dig. So one thing I would do is I would put a little flag on him and it had my phone number on it. Like I literally just taped the flag on him and I had my phone number and then if for some reason I was to lose him but I never did again because the flag was easy to find that I could easily like somebody could easily just pick him up and Get my phone number.

Amy Castro: 38:36

That's a good idea. I like that. Yeah, I guess just just to wear when he's out and about yeah, yep, that was his, that was his collar with his flag. Yeah, okay, I might have to tell Frankie's parents that, if he should, if he gets lost again right. Took. I took him back the other day, so let's talk about now. You had mentioned New Year's and and obviously, when we associate New Year's oftentimes with fireworks but I don't know where you where, how it is, where you live, but in Texas, every holiday there's fireworks. So, it's receive. There's gonna be fireworks Christmas day, obviously 4th of July, new Year's.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 39:10

Wind for us there you go. It's pretty constant. Yeah, we have a lot of fireworks here in Washington, so yeah, yes, yeah, and that's so.

Amy Castro: 39:20

That's not only reason why animals might run away, but what other? What other hat? Is it just the running way that we have to worry about, or is it stress?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 39:28

Yeah, stress as well. You know it's not again. It's like the parties that happen, so lots of loud noises or just being left alone because a lot of people will go out for those periods of time too, right? So try just trying to figure out like what's gonna be easiest for your pet as it have, like you were have. You were talking about your Other episode, having a pets that are coming over like if they're willing to stay there, it's got to be the thing. They got to stay there all night with the pet to make sure that they're okay. You know, right, maybe they go go boarding facility. Well, there are a lot of boarding facilities that not like noise canceling but they're really doled out by all the noise, like they don't want a bunch of other people on the outside Hearing a bunch of dogs, and so it's much easier to calm all those noises on the inside as well. So sometimes it's just putting them into a kennel, into a boarding facility, so that you know that they're gonna be safe there. There's no way for them to get out, and you know the noises are gonna be a lot more dull than that situation. Or, yeah, if keeping them again in a room somewhere that they cannot get out. I've definitely had dogs jump through windows before because they were so anxious, so making sure they can't get out of somewhere and then again putting on some sort of like calming type noises, usually like white noise is great, or the TV, but you got to make sure it's the TV that doesn't have a lot of loud noises again, like is some people just turn on the news but then that nerve news turns into the countdown and fireworks and you know that that's not calming for them. They need something that's nice and calm just to help drown out that noise.

Amy Castro: 40:51

Okay, so you can well and I think with with so many devices that we have nowadays where we can control, you know, put on a certain playlist or certain types of noises, or whatever the case may be, it's probably something that we can control. And we stress all the time about crates too. But I think if your pet is used to being in their crate, even if you have to, like my, all my crates are in the family room and that's just kind of that, and some of them are built in One of them. We just we turn it into a crate, just cuz like how many crates do you need?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 41:20

your living room.

Amy Castro: 41:22

But I can always for the for all but one of them. I could always put those back in my bedroom and give the animals. And so, because I even find that animals, even if it's in my own house, I've got you know one in particular who is. If she's in my bedroom all the time, it's not like it's a strange place, but if you take her back there and you shut the door, she starts looking around like what's gonna happen.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 41:42

Why are you shutting that door?

Amy Castro: 41:44

Suddenly it's like. It's like I can't eat, I can't sleep now because I'm all stressed out. So having their crate moved in there kind of gives them that little bit of security.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 41:53

I think exactly that really nice, safe place that they know that he can go to. Right, they has all their familiar smells and everything. And Then, just yeah, talking about like just making them feel secure, to like a thunder jacket can be really good too. I was told people to try this beforehand before all the noise. But that are jackets are really nice because it just gives them like a nice squeeze and For anybody who's had, like you know, kids that have Sensory issues and stuff like that's a really nice thing for them because it just makes them feel a lot more safe and secure when they have that like nice squeeze around to them.

Amy Castro: 42:22

Yeah, and I think that is key though, because we we actually got a bunch of those donated, and Sometimes they work on some animals and sometimes it's. It doesn't make any difference, but I think I think the difference is that they've gotten used to it beforehand. If you wait until they're already stressed out and think you know and they're freaking out, and now you're gonna put it On, it's probably kind of a day late dollar short, yeah, at that point. and same thing with medications, like some people that's what I was gonna ask about next, yeah.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 42:48

Yeah, I always tell people to try at least the day before. You know something's gonna happen. So if you have like, especially like for New Year's Eve like, let's say, new Year's Eve is on a Sunday, well you know, people are gonna be partying Friday and Saturday, so don't start medications on Saturday because it's already too late. They've already been having fireworks and stuff started on Thursday and that way they already have it on board. Because if you try giving it like as soon as a firework happens, that their adrenal glands are going, which means that they pretty much have all this Epinephrine going, which means that they're really high stress already and if that happens they're just not gonna be able to calm down even with the medication. So it's much easier to start it beforehand and that way it's already in their system and they're less stressed about that first firework that's gonna happen.

Amy Castro: 43:30

That is definitely a good point. Do you think that if I know that my pet or maybe I'm not even 100% sure if my pet's going to have whether it's storm, anxiety or, in this case, fireworks if I start making a big deal about over comforting them or over reacting to it, do you think that impacts Like when a kid falls down and they look at you to see should I be crying, should I hurt? And if you just ignore it, then they go on about their business? But if you go, oh my gosh, are you okay? Then they start bawling. Right, does that work on animals or does it not work like that?

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 44:03

In a sense like I've definitely seen animals like my wife's dog when she was go to the dog park. She was this tiny little raterior and so she would like shiver. Like it's 80 degrees outside right and she's like shivering and people would pick her up because they're like, oh, poor baby, you're so cold, and so then every single time she'd go to the dog park she'd run up to that person who would do that and start shivering, right, because she knew that somebody would pick her up, pick me up, exactly. So I think that in some sense, yeah, like if you are overly comforting and stuff with them, yeah, they're gonna be like, okay, I get a lot more love when I'm anxious, so we don't want it to be like it's a really fine line, right? It really? depends on each dog, because some dogs are super smart and they will pick up on those things so quickly. Versus other dogs are just kind of like la-di-da whatever.

Amy Castro: 44:53

Yeah, well, yeah, and I think you know whether it's them going for the comfort or because you're acting like, oh my gosh, it's okay, and now you're acting like it's scared. I mean, they do feel your energy, you know, yeah, and so it's like, okay, maybe I should be scared, because you're acting like you're scared.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 45:09

Yeah, so definitely feeding off of them, feeding off your person. They do that all the time.

Amy Castro: 45:14

Yeah, and I think too, if you are, I know, just having been through some, and like you said, dogs going through windows, I had a dog that had it really was just later in his life where he got really bad storm anxiety. But you know, we were leaving, we were gonna go down to the great day to pick, to go to the beach, but we got about halfway to the beach and it started, just you know, holy heck breaking loose and we turned around to go back and by the time we got back the dog had busted out of his crate and he pulled a lamp over and ate the light bulb.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 45:46

There was blood everywhere.

Amy Castro: 45:47

Yeah, just it's like why.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 45:49

Why would you do that Exactly? Why why the light bulb? Who knows?

Amy Castro: 45:52

But just the anxiety, that and that's when we realized that a wire crate because that was my point in bringing that up was to think about your crate and don't wait until you're going out to Times Square and you're gonna be gone for 24 hours to realize that a wire crate maybe not is the best choice for a dog like that, and so we definitely had to upgrade the crate and for some reason, when we went to the plastic crate or that like the airline style, you know, 48 inch of course, but giant it just we put a blanket over that and we never really had a problem after that, but I think it was just it took away the sensory, the light, and then, you know, just made him feel a little bit more secure. So, looking at different crates because I've had so many people that call and they're calling maybe to surrender a pet to us because I can't leave my house he's, you know, tearing himself up it's like, how many other types of crates have you tried, cause they're not all created equal.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 46:43

Exactly. Some pets need to be able to see more things to be in the crate. Some pets need to be able to see less things to be in a crate. Some pets need to have like a lot of bedding. Some pets need to have no bedding, like they just really have to play around with a lot of different crates to try to figure out, like, which ones are going to work for them. And I have like one dog who she can she's great, she can go in a crate no problem. And I have another one who, no matter what, she has anxiety, but she's also gigantic, so she's a great dane and so it's really hard for her cause. She feels very confined in those things, you know. But just like. But I had to go through you know 12 different crates to try to figure that out first.

Amy Castro: 47:19

Yep, it's an experimentation process. So the bottom line with all of that was, you know, slightly going down a rabbit hole there. But I think the bottom line with it is, whatever you're going to do, you need to experiment with it well in advance to figure out what works, so that you don't learn the hard way that it didn't work.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 47:34

Yeah. Especially like with Thunder shirts and stuff too, you don't want to do it the day of, and then come home and it is ripped to shreds and they've eaten part of it, right?

Amy Castro: 47:41

Yeah, now you've created your own problems, exactly.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 47:44

Yeah.

Amy Castro: 47:46

So anything else that we missed or any other final tips as far as keeping our pets safe, and not that we don't want to give you business because you're a great veterinarian, but we want we do want to try to stay out of there if we don't have to be there, yeah, I'd rather people not have to be there on during the holidays as well, because I know that they don't want to be there, right.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 48:05

But I would say one other thing is that if you do leave and leave them with a pet sitter or somebody who's there to watch them make sure that they have some sort of authorization, because if we can't get ahold of you, then that makes it a lot harder to do things Like I've definitely had dogs that were in dire situations where, like they are dying and I could not get ahold of that pet owner because they had their cell phone off or they had it on Doodudsturb or they did not hear it. So we need to have like some way to get ahold of people. So I even tell people like write down an authorization saying like this is what I'm authorizing them to spend up to if there's a problem. Or make sure they have a credit card that they can use, that they can put money onto, because they also have to pay for these things beforehand. I can't just go off of the word of the pet sitter or even just saying like if, for some reason, like if you have an elderly dog and you know that, you know there's potentially, is there a time coming soon to saying, like I authorized this person to put my pet to sleep if there is some medical emergency, and then also even having, like, some way to reach them, like if they go to somebody's house, like if you can give them that person's house phone number or somebody else's cell phone number, or mom's cell phone number or somebody else's that we can call as well.

Amy Castro: 49:15

Yeah, that's a really good idea because, yeah, like you said, you might have your phone with you but if you're someplace that's loud, and, I think, with the pet sitter. I think I actually just saw a video the other day where a pet sitter was telling a story about taking care of a pet and having to. You know it was and it was. They knew that it was towards the end of that pet's life, but despite the fact that she sort of knew what the owner's wishes were, she didn't want to be the one to say yes, euthanize. And so, unfortunately, it sounded to me like that pet probably suffered for two extra days, that it maybe didn't need to suffer because the pet and you know, I understand I don't want to make that decision for somebody else either. So I think, like you said, writing down your wishes or maybe you know, having that communication much more clear would be super helpful.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 50:02

Yeah, people usually just write down what they need to eat and stuff, right, but it's just having like something else on there so that they know what they are and are not allowed to do. Because it's usually not something that they even think of when they're asking questions about, like when they come over to pets it for you, you know.

Amy Castro: 50:17

Yeah, yeah, it's about what do they eat, when do they go out? You know where do they sleep, that kind of stuff. And even if it's not an elderly pet, things definitely do happen. So it's important that they know what your wishes are and that they can get ahold of you, right, absolutely so good point. So, bottom line, with a little you know, I think, with a little planning, a little preparation and some due diligence, you can definitely enjoy a peaceful, joyful holiday involving your friends, family and pets, as long as everybody's kind of on the same page and, like I said, that we're just we're doing our due diligence and trying to keep everybody's sake during the holidays, absolutely so. I appreciate all of your wise advice, as always, and information. Thank you so much for being with us here today.

Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: 50:59

Of course. Thank you, Amy, I really appreciate it.

Amy Castro: 51:01

All right. Well, you have a great holiday season. If I don't talk to you again before, all right sounds good, thank you. You too. Thanks for listening to Starlight Pet Talk. Be sure to visit our website at wwwstarlightpettalkcom for more resources, and be sure to follow this podcast on your favorite podcast app, so you'll never miss a show. If you enjoyed and found value in today's episode, we'd appreciate a rating on Apple. Or if you'd simply tell a friend about the show, that would be great too. Don't forget to tune in next week and every week for a brand new episode of Starlight Pet Talk, and if you don't do anything else this week, give your pets a big hug from us.