Choosing and Caring for Small Pets: Advice from a Vet

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents learn everything they need to know to have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet. So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk rescue, adoption and pet parenting done right.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Before we get started with today's episode, I want to do something a little new and different. Periodically, I want to share some information about the animals that we intake at Starlight Outreach and Rescue. For those of you who don't know, this podcast, starlight Pet Talk, is part of our Education and Information mission at Starlight Outreach and Rescue to help pets stay in good homes and to help homeless pets find forever homes. So in this episode I want to go ahead and share the story of Sassy and, for those of you who are watching on video or we will share some pictures, some links to some pictures as well. Sassy is a dog that was found here in Houston, texas, area. She was actually found by a Good Samaritan lying in the street, unable to really get up and walk and move on a day that was 107 degrees outside. She was completely emaciated, as you can see from the pictures, and she had ingrown toenails that had grown into her skin and she obviously had been used for breeding purposes and has had multiple litters. But the saddest thing well, not that that's not sad enough, but the saddest thing about poor Sassy is that not only is she heart-warm, positive, but she is 100%, completely blind. So we got the call from the Good Samaritan and we obviously knew we had to help. So Sassy is now living here with us at the Rescue Ranch, getting lots of food. She's been to the veterinarian, which is how we know that she is heart-warm positive. So she is in the process of starting pretreatment for her heart-warm situation and once we get her heart-warm under control and we get some good weight on her which has already begun we will have her up for adoption. So this is the kind of thing that we do at Starlight Outreach and Rescue every day for dogs, cats and other critters. And if you'd like to follow our stories and learn more about what we're doing at the Rescue, we do have a website, wwwstarlightoutreachandrescueorg, but really the best place to follow our everyday actions is on Facebook. So get on Facebook and just do a search for Starlight Outreach and Rescue and you'll find our page. We'll put a link in the show notes and you can get updates on Sassy and any of the other animals that we have in our care. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, amy Castro, and today we're talking about what some people call starter pets, which actually is a term I don't really like, because I think it somehow implies that we're going to automatically move on from these pets or that, as some people treat them unfortunately, that they're disposable in some way when people get tired of them or they want something quote unquote better. That said, critters like campsters, bunnies, parakeets and others can be really great pets for people who either aren't ready for a dog or a cat or they just don't want one. However, just like we've been preaching all along in Starlight Pet Talk about making the right choice when choosing a pet, the same rules kind of apply to these smaller pets as well. So today we're going to talk about several different types of pets and their needs, so that anybody that's listening and maybe is considering getting a pet for themselves or for their children can make an informed decision and give even these little bitty pets the lifetime commitment that they deserve. So my guest today is a very special guest, dr Linda Atkins, and I've known Linda, I think, since I was in junior high. She saved my butt. She basically helped me get through high school, because I was not a great student, I was not good at some of the subjects and she was way smarter than me. So I think she's definitely entitled to the credit for me graduating, graduating high school, for sure. She also helped me get my very first real job at the Valley Cottage Animal Hospital in Valley Cottage, new York. She went on to college and then veterinary school at Cornell, so I was always super impressed how smart she was, like I said, and she's been a practicing veterinarian working with dogs and cats and some of the more exotic pets that we're going to talk about today for just over 30 years. She's also got three awesome kids, and one of whom actually is following in her footsteps as a veterinarian and will graduate in 2024 from Cornell. So she's super lucky. I wish I had a vet in my family. It would really save us a lot of money at the rescue. And then one more interesting fact about Linda is that she also serves as the veterinarian to the animals at the Bear Mountain Zoo, so she really does have a ton of experience working with a very wide range of animals, and so thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Linda, you're welcome and thanks for having me. Sure, sure, and I have to apologize, and I already did, but I'm going to apologize on air for Linda. So we actually did this recording originally in person, side by side and like a knucklehead, I left that one critical piece of equipment. I left it at home when I went to meet with her. So we went through this whole show and recorded it and found out that half of the audio was missing. So hopefully we'll be even better at it this time around, since we've had a little bit of practice. So I kind of broke the critters into three different categories, and the first one that I wanted to hit on were kind of the fuzzy four-legged critters, so things like, you know, hamsters, jibbles, guinea pigs, rabbits, ferrets, things like that. So, linda, what would be kind of maybe your choice or what you would recommend to a client as to which one of those types of critters might be a great or a more easy to care for first pet?

Speaker 3: 5:48

Yeah, the fuzzies and furries are always my favorite, the four-legged ones, so I enjoy those and they kind of range from small to bigger and as you get bigger they get a little more complex in their care. So if you start small with a hamster, the small hamsters like those fuzzy teddy bear ones or the Syrian ones, those are great first pets. I had one of those in college. He traveled with me back and forth. They can be in a glass tank enclosure like a 10 or a 20 gallon tank, but I always took him out to play every day so he needs more than that small tank. But they're relatively easy to care for. They live about three years. You change the bedding, you know, once or twice a week. They eat store-bought food, easy to get, easy to store. So a nice pet, friendly good with like little kids can hold them. You only have about a three-year commitment, sadly with a hamster but a great addition and I think it's important.

Speaker 2: 6:46

You know that you mentioned to get them out. That's one of the things that I know as I got older because I had I also had hamsters, I've had gerbils, I've had a guinea pig, I've had a bunny and you know kind of working your way up in size with some of these critters. But the glass tank for these little critters, even though it might seem like it's adequate, they really do need to get out and have that. What extra exercise Is it the exercise, or is it the human interaction, or is it both? That's so important for them, I think it's.

Speaker 3: 7:14

I think it's the exercise and the enrichment, the environment enrichment, and just for other people to enjoy them too. I had one in college at Cornell and I, you know, at that time our rooms were relatively open. You kind of left your door open. I'd come back to my room and my hamster would be gone and I didn't worry that he had escaped. It's just that he would usually be down the hall. Somebody else was playing for him. So it was a good outlet for, you know, college students and very portable. But then as you move up, you know you're getting into guinea pigs, size-wise Guinea pigs, also great, you know. You can have them around for six, seven, eight years, often Require a little more space, though you know they'll sell them to those short-haired guinea pig. It's in that cage that's maybe two by three, and often people think that's adequate for them. But they really should have a play area or play pen. They kind of don't jump. So you can fence them in with like a little one-foot fence and you can make them a really big space. You can bring them outside as long as you're watching them, because they're fast even though they don't look fast. They, you know they eat a pelleted diet, so that's pretty easy to get from the pet store. They eat hay which is easy to store, but they do. They do require vitamin C and green so they have to have greens every day. So that's important for them to, you know. Have adequate greens once a year. Veterinary care and I say that even for the hamsters. I try and check my hamster patients and guinea pigs once a year just for a well care. Make sure their toenails are not too long For those starter guinea pigs. Try and stay away from the really long-haired ones. They have some that have hair. That's like you know, a wig gets long and it requires a lot more maintenance and care and grooming. The average short-haired guinea pigs are pretty easy as far as care.

Speaker 2: 9:02

Yeah, that's good to know because those they are cute. But again, are you going to be willing to? I guess you brush them and make sure you know, make sure, kind of make sure they don't get mad.

Speaker 3: 9:10

Yeah toenail maintenance because you know, wild guinea pigs if they're such a thing as a wild guinea pig are running around on rocks and hard surfaces, whereas ours are on soft bedding. So that soft bedding their nails get very long and curly and I'll see them come in with not adequate bedding. They get sores on their feet or their nails get too long. But they're really good for little kids because they don't tend to jump. They'll sit in a lap. They make all sorts of great sounds. They generally don't bite, so they're pretty sturdy. Pretty sturdy.

Speaker 2: 9:44

So that's good to know, as you're kind of crossing over into getting into some of these more, the larger pets, the whole fresh element to the diet, because I know and I know we'll talk about birds in just a bit, but that was something that I didn't realize until we took some birds in at the rescue that they, you know they can't just live on the seeds and the stuff that you buy at the store, or they shouldn't just live on that. They live better and healthier if you are giving them fresh vegetables and fruits and things like that. So that's something to consider from not only a budgeting standpoint but just a prep and care standpoint, especially if you're buying one of these pets for your children, you know, are they going to be responsible to. It's one thing to make sure there's food in the bowl. It's another thing to have to chop up fruits and vegetables every day for them. So something that's definitely to consider.

Speaker 3: 10:27

Yeah, and the guinea pigs you can have more than one. Ginea pigs can live in pairs if you get them. You know at a young age, boys together, girls together, obviously, but they don't generally fight as much. You know, as we move up into the rabbits Rabbits are probably my favorite as far as the other than a cat and dog type pet, that they rabbits make great pets. So. But there you're going to have that rabbit probably for 10, 11, 10 times 12 years. So it's a much bigger commitment.

Speaker 2: 10:57

As long as a dog.

Speaker 3: 10:58

Yes, yes, for your house rabbits, and most of my house rabbit patients are ones that they live in. They basically live in the house. They may have a nighttime cage or a playpen, but they're often free roaming rabbits like like a cat or a dog. They're silent for the most part. So that's good if you have an apartment and can't have anything noisy. Rabbits are great for that. But they do require a fairly big enclosure, not just a little small pen, and there are a lot more requirements as far as their diet and taking care of them. Once you're veterinarian care. We vaccinate rabbits, so they do need to see the vet once a year, toenail trimming and diet wise, the pelleted diet is really not what they eat. They mostly eat hay and greens. So I don't recommend feeding pelleted diet to most of my rabbits. They start as babies with that, but then now they eat hay and fresh greens. So a pile of greens kind of the size of the rabbit, so a large amount every day, fixing them a big fat salad every day. They're getting a salad every day. They're you know. They could be raised with kids and started out with kids, but they're a little more breakable than the guinea pigs.

Speaker 1: 12:09

They have a tendency to hop.

Speaker 3: 12:11

Their bones are very fragile, so we have to be very careful that they don't get dropped or jump out of arms?

Speaker 2: 12:19

Yeah, I bet you've seen a lot of. I see that with puppies, sometimes too, with little little dogs. What about having rabbits, either going outside or or maybe even guinea pigs too? I don't know how that works, but you know, either going outside or living outside. If it's a domestic, you know, because you said house rabbit, because that's the way they're living Can they do? They need to be outside. Is it okay to put them outside? What's the story there?

Speaker 3: 12:40

Yeah, they. They can definitely go outside for enrichment purposes, exercise definitely need to make sure they're fenced in. They're very, very fast. I even recommend people microchipping the rabbits. It's a good way of identifying them. If they are going to go out you have to make sure it's secured, because we don't want that rabbit to be end up, you know, five streets down because they're fast and lost because they will not survive, although they you see those rabbits outside, those little cotton tails, the domestic rabbits just don't fare as well outside. They become prey to hawks because they're all sorts of cool colors, like white that doesn't blend in like the brown cotton tails do. Dogs will go after them. So you definitely want to make sure you're secured, but they love to be outside and and if you're in a place where you do want to outside rabbit that has a hutch, as long as it's very, very secure, has shelter from rain and cold, but a yard too. We don't want them to just be in that three by four cell, as I call it, for their life.

Speaker 2: 13:42

Yeah, that's not. That's not not a good thing. You mentioned dogs going after them. Can they coexist? You know, if you're, if you are having a rabbit around the house, can they coexist with dogs and cats, or is that not a good idea? No?

Speaker 3: 13:55

absolutely. I have a lot of house rabbit clients that have cats. They, the cats, have grown up with the rabbits. The rabbits are usually the boss of the cat for the most part. If you bring the cat into the family after you get the rabbit, that usually works pretty well and a lot of dogs. Again, it depends upon the breed of dog. Certain breeds of dogs like huskies around rabbits not a good good idea If the dog has a big prey drive that you have to be very worried about the rabbit then, because if the rabbit runs because they're prey species they have a tendency to run. There could be definitely injury but they can. I have a lot of families that have rabbits, cats and dogs and everybody gets along.

Speaker 2: 14:35

As far as keeping rabbits, other than the need for space, the salad, any other downsides? Because I was thinking about and maybe it wasn't rabbits, but some free roaming house critter that likes to eat wires and chew on things and things. Is that, is it?

Speaker 3: 14:49

rabbits or guinea pigs. Both you definitely have to rabbit proof your house. Some of them are great and won't chew on stuff. My rabbit in vet school that I had again traveled great back and forth but chewed pretty much every textbook edge that I had. So every vet school textbook had a big chew mark down the side. You have to rabbit proof the wires because they will bite those, but they're litter box strain. Mine was completely clean. You'd never even know. He would always go back to the litter box. So they they're litter box trainable like a cat would be so great for apartments, but they definitely are. They can get into some trouble if you're not careful.

Speaker 2: 15:29

Like a puppy. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, good, good point. And speaking of the litter box, I would assume is it. It's different litter than cat litter, right, and you wouldn't want them. You can't just have a cat litter box that cats and rabbits would be using together.

Speaker 3: 15:44

They wouldn't share it. Now the rabbits tend to like that. Newspaper litter is one of the things you can train them on. You can use like a coarser gravel litter. Again, it's preference, what they've been trained to. I don't know any cats and rabbits that use the same litter box, but they might.

Speaker 2: 16:02

Okay, good night, all right. Now what about ferrets? Because I have always thought ferrets are so cute. We used to have one that got picked up at animal control every once in a while. There he was, and then his owner would be calling like hey, have you guys got my ferret? What about them as pets?

Speaker 3: 16:19

They also. They're kind of a definitely different than the rodents and the rabbits are. Ferrets are carnivores, so that's one thing that's important to know. So they're gonna eat. You know, some people feed them regular meat, but very active, definitely need to ferret proof. They will eat and swallow anything and they have a tendency to get obstructed If they eat something they shouldn't. They get into everything under everything, through vents, under doors. They can get down about as flat as you know an inch if they need to to get other things, but so fun to watch. Again, they have ferret cages but they still need outside time running around the house as long as it's ferret-proofed. But they're a lot of fun. You're committed to about seven years or so with a ferret, so not as long as a rabbit necessarily. You have to like that musky ferret smell. So definitely want to visit the pet store or the rescue. They do have them in rescues. Same for the rabbits and the guinea pigs. You can get them through a rescue. You don't have to get your rabbit through a pet shop. You can actually get your ferret anything through the rescue groups. There's a lot of them out there. But definitely test them out. Test out that ferret. Make sure you like that ferret-y smell.

Speaker 2: 17:33

Yeah, good point. I was going to ask about the smell and I'm glad you said something about the rescues, because I've even and I can't remember what rescue it was. It was up in Austin but they had mice and hamsters and they would take pictures of them and promote them as adoptable pets, just like all the other critters. I remember seeing a little picture of a little hamster in a car. They took a picture in this little car. It was so cute. But, yeah, start there and save one from a rescue or a shelter, just like you would do with a dog, and then, if you're not finding what you need, then you can kind of move on to the stores and places like that.

Speaker 3: 18:12

Yeah, and making sure you're not allergic to that's important. That's how they end up in places like Amy's, rescue or other people's. They haven't tested them out. So many people are allergic to rabbits. You have to be very careful with rabbits. Go and go even to the pet store, and pet them, handle them, hold them. Make sure everybody in the family is not allergic Everybody that's going to handle them Same. I have a technician at work. She's allergic to guinea pigs, which she has a very bad reaction to guinea pigs. So you can be allergic Not so much the ferrets but definitely the other ones. Or they're allergic to the hay. Those creatures need lots of hay, so you're handling it, you're moving it around. You don't want to have a hay allergy and get a rabbit, because then you're kind of dooming yourself.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Yeah, that's a good point. I remember we did a fall event and rode back in the car with some hay bales that we had used for a photo shoot and my friend Michelle was like. I don't even know if she knew whether she was allergic to hay or not beforehand, but she had a bunch of hay in her car by the time she got to my house, miserable, and who knew? I never even really thought about that Along those lines of allergies, and we hadn't talked about rats as pets. But I had a rat as a pet one time and I ended up giving it to another rat-loving friend because every time I handled the rat the little it's not like he was actively scratching me, but it's just by nature their little toenails and I would get little like almost little hives and my hands would all start itching. So I never knew that was a thing either. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:46

Yeah, we have a lot of technicians that have rats at our practice because the local technician school uses them for their demonstration rats and then they're all adopted out. So there's quite a few adoptable and they're also great pets, about two, three years. They only live, but they're they're active, they're friendly, they're not aggressive, they're generally very tame and they will live in a sweatshirt pocket for you and sit on your lap for a while. So another another good option, as long as you're okay with the rat type tail.

Speaker 2: 20:17

Yeah, the tail takes a little getting used to for some people, but it is what it is. All right, let's move on and talk about birds. I've never I've always admired birds from afar, but never really wanted them, because I always perceive them to be loud and messy, and I think I might be right on that front. Now that I've got, I'm actually filming this and and recording in our guest room that is now my office, because the room that was my office is now the bird room, because we've got two parakeets and two cockatiels living in there. So what do you, what do you think about birds? What's your advice about considering getting birds?

Speaker 3: 20:54

Yeah, the parakeets are a good start for a bird, just to know that you actually like birds, or the cockatiels like you have. So the parakeets are the small ones. You see them a lot in the pet stores. There's usually a big cage of them all different colors, greens and blues. They're chatty but not too loud for them, and if you get them young you can tame them down to sit on your finger so they're not imprisoned in just the cage. So cause I do like birds to be not only in the cage but either have an aviary which is like a big room. That's where they can fly about, not outside, because then you lose the birds and people find them and they end up back for something to adopt.

Speaker 2: 21:32

So I got these. Well, three out of four, that's how we got them.

Speaker 3: 21:35

Because the trimming of the wings is always a little bit controversial. If you're going to let it free flying in your house, it's nice if they can, you know, be very active and fly from space to space. But they are a risk, though. You got to make sure your doors and windows are closed because they're fast and then you would lose them. But a parakeet is a good starter one. Make sure you like that aspect a little harder to litter box train, shall we say. There the parakeets are generally going to go wherever they are, to the bathroom. So you have to be prepared. People can train the as you move up cockatiels, conures, moving up that, quakers, those tend. Some people can actually train those. Have clients that have little diapers type suits that their birds wear when they're out so that they can keep clean. But as you get larger, a little more commitment. Again, parakeet should eat a mix of a seed. I always prefer a pelleted diet. So a pelleted diet is like feeding your dog dog food. It's balanced and nutritionally balanced and has everything they need in it. And then it's shaped like a little pellet or a small kibble. So it's like kibble for birds and fresh fruits and vegetables. So the cockatiels, the parakeets, even all the bigger ones.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Enjoy those fresh fruit salads and things like you do for your rabbit, yeah, and make sure, with all of these pets, that we're feeding fresh things to, that you investigate what fruits and vegetables they can and cannot eat, because that was that's something I'm constantly asking. I won't say her name, because if I say it she's going to respond to me, but that speaker device that's name begins with an A. I'm always asking so-and-so can birds eat tomatoes, or you know, and the answer is no. But so things like that, make sure you check it out, do your homework on that, because you don't want to make them sick. So you said, as far as getting them younger, they're more trainable. I assume the more you handle them, the more interactive they're going to be.

Speaker 3: 23:35

Oh very much. Yes, the more you bond with them, they'll bond with you Again as you move up the line of size, going from cockatiel to Quaker. They have a tendency to bond to individual people. They recognize people. They want to be with that person. Sometimes they'll be okay with multiple people, but they do tend to kind of choose a mate in a sense, and that would be whatever person provides them with that interaction that they like. And some of them can be a little territorial over that one person and always want to be with them. So you have to be careful with some of the birds and parrots as you move up. Veterinary care once a year for nail trimmings might be more often, unless we can teach you how to do it yourself Wing trimmings. If you're going to be trimming the wings, we can teach, or you can bring them in for trims.

Speaker 2: 24:24

What about how many birds? Can I get just one parakeet? Do I have to get a pair of parakeets? And does it matter as you go up or down the species scale with the birds?

Speaker 3: 24:37

If you do get more than one parakeet or cockatiel, they will tend to bond more towards that other bird, even if you add it after you got the first one. They'll by nature bond to the other bird and they'll be less bonded to you. So the people that want the bird to be their best friend and they're talking to them all the time and they're with them tend to have one bird. If you have separate birds, you have to watch the sizing to make sure that the bigger bird is not going to bite the smaller bird, because you can lose a toe you can get injuries from. If you have a much bigger parrot, if you have an African gray which are the gray ones that have a great vocabulary and you have a cockatiel, that can be a bad combination because one might bite the other one by accident. But they can interact. You can have people have them in different cages and then rotate who comes out so they have their outside. Time would be fine but, again, definitely spend some time around those larger parrots before starting with one of those, because those are not really a starter bird. They're going to be with you for a long time. They can be 30, 40, 50 years. You're going to have that bird. I just met an Amazon the other day that was 47 years old. She got it in 1976 in Panama and has had it the whole time.

Speaker 2: 25:59

Wow, yeah, and so that's something to definitely consider is how long these birds live, because you're talking about a parrot. You need to write that into your will. Who's going to take that pet? So it's definitely something to consider from that long-term commitment. And, like you said, those bigger birds, definitely not starter pets. And I think the idea of starting with a parakeet and you said this in the very beginning and it was smart, because just having the parakeets and the cockatiels that I have now, as much I do enjoy them and they're rescues, they're not mine, but long-term I can kind of see that my lifestyle is probably not suited, probably not to having a single bird, because I feel like if they're a single bird they need a lot more human interaction. But then also just having an entire room taken over with birds and they I kid you not, they poop everywhere. So think about how you're going to manage that. And what about having birds with dogs and cats? I keep my closed in just that one room.

Speaker 3: 26:58

I don't trust the cat, so dependent on the dog and the cat and the bird. Some birds are aggressive enough that they will kind of shoe that cat away or dog and some dogs are so gentle with birds People tell me the bird sits on their golden retriever's head. Everybody gets along great. But they can definitely become injured by the larger animals and it's hard to know. You really have to know how your dog reacts to birds even in the backyard how they're going to fare with a bird if you bring it home. If they're raised together they might respect it, but one just swat with the paw could injure that bird pretty easily. That's a larger parrot.

Speaker 2: 27:39

Yeah, good to consider. We talked about how long the parrots and those kind of birds can live many, many years. What about parakeets and cockatiels? What's kind of the age range there?

Speaker 3: 27:50

That's still kind of a big commitment. A parakeet's going to be 10. Definitely 10, 11 you can have a parakeet for, and then the cockatiels can be in their 20s, oh well. That's another longer commitment.

Speaker 2: 28:03

I guess I'm going to have some birds around for a while unless I get them. I haven't been able to get them adopted yet. Well, I think that the challenge that I have right now with trying to get them adopted is we've had people that are interested in taking the birds, but not anybody that's willing to let them free or has a situation that is appropriate for them to free fly around, and so I just can't, now that they've had and it's only a 10 by 10 room, but I just can't imagine somebody putting those even a little parakeet, putting them back in a cage and just leaving them in there. So I'm just struggling to find that right person, but they're safe and happy here until we do. Okay, all right, so let's move on to the. I guess did they all fall into the category of reptiles or turtles reptiles?

Speaker 3: 28:49

Turtles are reptiles, yeah, okay, so most people have reptiles. Very few people have amphibians, which are your frogs, newts, salamanders those kind of things.

Speaker 2: 29:00

But they do, they do. I mean, I've seen those in the stores, so people do get them.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Yeah, now I you know I don't treat as many of some of those more exotic reptiles, like those axolotas and that that are becoming trendy, but I do have a veterinarian. I work with Dr Madoff who specializes in reptiles, so anything I don't know about reptiles, he jumps right in there for some of those.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Okay, great. So I wanted to start with turtles, because I'm a big fan again, always wanted a turtle, but just never have gotten one because of a variety of reasons, and one of them is how long they live as well.

Speaker 3: 29:37

Yeah, yeah, you can have them a really long time. And again, it's, it's a size thing. So when you get that turtle small at the pet store or from a turtle expo or reptile expo, you want to make sure you know what species of turtle that is. Those land tortoises if you start with, like a Russian tortoise, those are only going to maybe get as big as a dinner plate at the most, usually smaller even than that. So those they'll start small but they really don't get much bigger than that. There are maybe a pound or two at the most. They are great fun. Again, they are all vegetarians, so but you do have to make salads for them. We can have turtle supplements like turtle pellets, but they get salads every day. So you've got to be, you've got to be okay with going to the grocery store twice a week, three times a week, preparing a nice fresh variety salad because they have specific requirements for their calcium so they don't have bone problems. But that's a good. You know a nice small tortoise example. But you can ask at the reptile expo or the pet store or rescue. If you get an adult one, then you know how big it's going to get. You want to try and avoid the one that you get that's small like a ravioli. It's ravioli because my sister has a tortoise called ravioli. She got it. It was the size of a ravioli but it was a Salkata tortoise. So Salkata tortoises get 50, 75, 100 pounds, so that will live also up in that 50, 75 year range or more Big commitment. Don't make the mistake of getting the cute little Salkata. They're adorable, they're. They've got little stripes and diamonds on their back, but they get enormous.

Speaker 2: 31:26

Yeah, or if you do. I mean, you have to really think about where is that going to live? You know 100 pounds and how? How would you even get that to the vet when you needed to go to the vet? Yeah, in a wagon.

Speaker 3: 31:37

Yeah, I've seen them come in in a wagon. I have one that comes in. This about 50 pounds Comes in in a wagon but you you can't lift them. You have to teach them to either move where you want them to move. And they're also grazers those big African tortoises and those Galapagos type tortoises. They graze, so you have to have either hay or grass for them to be outside. Lot of space. We live up here in New York in the wintertime because we just don't have that. In Texas you have more options for a grazing type tortoise that gets really large and they dig, so you got to make sure they don't escape.

Speaker 2: 32:14

And we we had those show up at animal control before too some pretty good size tortoises, and they can. You know, they may not move fast, but they'll keep going right, they just keep traveling. So if a tortoise wasn't my thing, what are some other good pets that somebody might consider A?

Speaker 3: 32:30

dragon is a good kind of starter reptile. They're relatively easy to maintain. They eat salads, but they do eat the bugs too. So you're going to have to be okay with crickets, mealworms, waxworms, some of the insect variety. They'll get a couple of times a week as an adult, but they also eat a salad. So they're salad eaters and as they get older they're more greens than they are bugs. But nice pet. You can have them in a tank that's maybe two by four, but need that outside time. Any of these pets really shouldn't stay just in that tank. They need to be out. You can take them out with a harness and a leash. They can ride on your shoulder, they can sit on your lap. The bearded dragons and they're arid. They don't need like a water type environment like some of the other reptiles would. They're more of a dry type lizard but friendly, a little prickly. So you have to be okay with that. Need their nails trimmed and they're. They're, but they come in all different colors now, not just the plain brown. They've got all varieties of colors of the bearded dragons.

Speaker 2: 33:35

But even within their tank, don't they? Because I know that we had one that when I was volunteering at Animal Control that came in and we named him Mr Pickles because he was brought in in a giant pickle like a pickle barrel that you might have at a restaurant or something like that, and it smelled like pickles. So, anyway, we named him Mr Pickles, but the Animal Control officers there that were caring for him and they number one they spent a lot of money on his tank and his environment and whatever. But then he also had a lot, of, a lot of issues like digestive issues and things like that. So are they high maintenance, I guess is the question, or is it really just about knowing what you're doing and maintaining a good environment and diet? It's all?

Speaker 3: 34:15

about husbandry. Each of these different species of reptiles has different what we call husbandry. What kind of substrate or surface they need to be on? Is it wood chips? Is it sand? Is it just astroturf? And how are you going to clean that? What type of environment? Are they climbers or they prefer to be flat? Do you need a tank that goes up, or one that's more long and skinny versus tall? How big is this pet going to get? Is it going to get a foot long and you have a one foot tank? But, knowing the species, because they all have different requirements for temperature, humidity, they need a certain type of light source UV lights to make sure they stay healthy Because, again, these are arid, like dry desert living animals in the wild. So we have to mimic that direct sunlight and they can have some nutritional issues and bone issues if they don't get that sunlight that they need, okay, and that's why they have those special lamps and things Special lamps yeah, light bulbs that need to be changed. So these are things that having a good reptile veterinarian can help you with when you first get them, to make sure you're on track. There's also lots of things on YouTube. You just want to make sure you have the right information when you're watching any of that.

Speaker 2: 35:31

Okay, and I would think probably is the case with all of these animals as far as if you get them from a rescue that specifically rescues that animal, then you can obviously learn a lot about its care and how it's been cared for. But if you, just because I see it all the time I mean you're on Facebook and it's like my kids no longer interested in this anything from hedgehogs, those definitely bearded dragons and I forget what you said that little, those little lizards that have the funny hairdos, what do they call it again? Oh, axolotos.

Speaker 3: 36:00

Yeah, those are a tank.

Speaker 2: 36:01

Yeah, I would assume that, obviously, the more reliable the source you get it from, as opposed to just some random person that may or may not know what they're doing and have cared for it properly, you're probably better off, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 36:12

Yeah, yeah, we see definitely more bearded dragons in my practice. Years ago it used to be iguanas, but iguanas are kind of a little bit out of style. People realize they get so big they start out really small and they don't realize this is going to be a four foot long creature that they're going to have, or a three foot long with the tail, and they don't have the setup for them. The bearded dragons are definitely an improvement over the iguana business.

Speaker 2: 36:39

And how big do those get? Because I've seen them. You know where they're, maybe a foot long, but is that. I don't know if that's full grown.

Speaker 3: 36:44

No, that's about right. It depends if you include the tail, so not too big. Then they stay about the same size, which is good. And then there are the snakes.

Speaker 2: 36:53

That's what I was going to say Snakes.

Speaker 3: 36:55

Next it's either like them or you don't. Either want a snake or you don't want a snake. Again, they eat whole food, so they tend to stay nutritionally pretty balanced and you can do frozen prey. There are sources for frozen food so you can buy frozen mice and frozen rats, but make sure you know what species. Again, are you starting with a corn snake, which doesn't get very big, stays pretty small and you can use a small tank, or are you getting a ball python that's going to get, you know, five feet long and weigh 50 pounds and needs a huge enclosure? So don't pick the wrong thing, because they all start out small at the reptile show. They're little, but you want to make sure you know what you're getting and they each need different environments and husbandry, even though they're all snakes. You've got dry snakes and tropical snakes, climbers, hiders.

Speaker 2: 37:44

Okay, so definitely need to do some extensive homework there. What about their need for coming out of their tanks? Do you have them slithering around the house, or is it more of a get them out and hold them, or what?

Speaker 3: 37:56

More of a get them out and hold them, I would say they are definitely a flight risk. They're fast and they can get into very small places that you can't get them out of. So getting a snake used to being handled and held, people will enjoy them. Just holding them and having them out that way and having the right size of enclosure for activity. Some literature does say the tank should be as long as the snake, so something to consider so they're not always bent or curled.

Speaker 2: 38:25

Yeah, and I would think at some point, like when you're talking about if you make the mistake and get one, well, maybe it's not a mistake, that's what you choose to do, and you want a five foot snake that's a pretty darn big tank. So you might even be talking about doing some kind of custom built environment, and so there's certain expense, I'm sure, going into that.

Speaker 3: 38:41

Yeah, Take a visit to your local zoo and you can see what kind of enclosure and see those types of snakes and reptiles because they have them all and you can see the setups that they're in and think to yourself can I mimic that at home?

Speaker 2: 38:55

Yeah, that's a good example. So what about birds, fuzzies, reptiles that we just happened to come across in our yards? Do we want to keep those as pets or not?

Speaker 3: 39:05

So there are very specific regional laws, state laws on what things you can keep and what things you can't Basically, pretty much anything outside you're not supposed to have inside unless you're rehabilitating it or you're licensed to do so. Those beautiful box turtles that you'll see on your walk or your hike you think you can bring them home. Those are really hard to keep at home. They have very specific nutritional needs and it's illegal really to have those box turtles but they look like the turtle you get at the pet store, so why can't I just bring this one home? But they're real specific on their needs. The cut-and-tail rabbits that you might find as a baby and raise it up and think, oh this is great, I've got this bunny, are not the same as your domestics. They're much more wild and flighty, very hard to tame down. So we try and keep the wild stuff that you see outside. If you find them, get them to your local rehabilitator. The shelter could set you up with a location or the local vet might know which rehabilitators to help you with those wildlife.

Speaker 2: 40:09

Yeah, yeah, that's good, Definitely good to know, because I spend way too much time looking at videos online and posting them for the rescue. But I mean the things that people have as pets squirrels, raccoons and all that other stuff. Yeah, raccoons, that's a good one, but stick with the things that we're supposed to keep as pets and leave the wildlife in the wild, where they belong for sure. So, Linda, this has been really interesting and hopefully really really helpful to people who are listening right now. Do you have any final thoughts? Advice, just kind of overall, in selecting one of these pets?

Speaker 3: 40:45

Yeah, I would say to meet one first. If you have a friend that has a rabbit or a rat or a snake, spend some time with it, see if it's the right pet for you. Once you see the care, you want to make sure you commit to that care its whole life. So many that I see start out in elementary school or high school with that rabbit and then they go off to college and mom or dad is left taking care of that rabbit. Make sure that you're either going to bring it along, which you can sometimes, or you have someone that's going to take care of it while you're away at school. But do that research first. Find out about them, meet them, make sure you're not allergic and look to the rescue groups. There's a lot of rescue groups for rabbits, in particular guinea pigs, that you can adopt, and then you know a little bit more about that rabbit's personality. Guinea pig a lot of adoption opportunities that we don't think of. Trying to avoid the little bunnies at Easter in the pet store.

Speaker 2: 41:41

Yeah, that's a good point, and I think it's also a good point for parents that are considering these pets for their children. It's not your kid's hamster, it's the family hamster, and so if your senior in high school decides that they want a hamster and the college they're going off to doesn't allow pets, that's going to be your hamster. So take into consideration what you're willing to care for if your kids leave them with you, because I hear that so many times in rescue with all kinds of animals, where it's like, well, it's not really my fill in the blank, it's my daughter's, but she moved out, she went off to college, she got married or whatever it might be, and now the parent is stuck with a pet that they really didn't want in the first place. So definitely something to consider. All right, well, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom.

Speaker 3: 42:26

It's good to see you again too. You're welcome. Yes, I hope we can educate some people about all these other options besides a dog or a cat.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Yeah, the world's not just all about dogs and cats. For the dog and cat people, consider some other critters that could be a great pet for you. So thank you all for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk. If you know of somebody that's looking at getting one of these smaller or different style pet, definitely share this episode with them. And, like we say every single week, if you don't do anything else this week, give your pets a hug from us.

Speaker 1: 42:59

You've been listening to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast. We're glad you joined us to gain new insight on the many loving ways to adopt and care for your pets. Be sure to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode, and if you want more information, go to starlightpettalkcom. Because your pet can't talk. Be sure to join us next time for Starlight Pet Talk.