Do Dogs Make Our Lives Better?

Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents learn everything they need to know to have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet. So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk rescue, adoption and pet parenting done right.

If you're a fan of Starlight Pet Talk, you'll love our new line of merchandise. We have t-shirts, hoodies and more, all featuring your favorite podcast logos and designs. Plus, we're offering a limited number of Starlight Outreach and Rescue items where a portion of the proceeds go directly to Animal Rescue. Our merchandise is the perfect way to show your support for your favorite pet podcast and animal rescue at the same time. So what are you waiting for? Just visit our website at wwwstarlightpettalkcom to order your merchandise today. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, amy Castro, and a recent study by BarkBox has found that pets don't just make their owners happier. They actually make them all around better people. Out of all the pet parents that they polled, 93% of dog dads and moms said that they can easily name at least one way that their pup has made them a better person by improving their emotional, behavioral and physical well-being. So in today's episode, we're going to explore the whys and ways our dogs make us better people with someone who has spent about five decades exploring this topic. Our guest today, mike Overly, is a canine partnered men's coach, energy healer, author and founder of the non-profit Sav2.org. He guides men through their healing journeys utilizing their amazing teachers, their dogs, his own experiences and life lessons allow him to provide valuable insights into how we can help ourselves heal. So, mike, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is going to be great.

I think it's going to be great. I mean, anytime you're talking about dogs, how can it go wrong?

Exactly.

That's right. So tell us a little bit about the work that you do with coaching men specifically, which I think is awesome, and then I'd like to hear a little bit more about your non-profit as well, before we launch into the actual topic of the day.

Yeah, absolutely Thank you. So I think guys have the propensity to not ask for help when they need it, and I think we need a lot more help out there. Just turn on the news right and we have evidence of people not taking care of themselves and pointing fingers at everybody else. So through my own healing journey and my own work, I realized that I need to get out there and see what I can do to help more guys find their own path right. I don't have everybody's answers, but I can help guide you to your own wisdom, and your dog's already trying to do that for you, and that's what I kind of helped them find out. And it's a long journey but we have to start somewhere, and the day I realized what these dogs were actually doing for us, I was floored, blown away, and so that's what I try and help others tap into. So that's fantastic.

That's great. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey? That's kind of brought you to this point? I mean, I know we don't have to necessarily start from birth, obviously, but what are some of the highlights of the road that you've traveled?

Yeah, great question. So the first big event in my life where I realized there was something more going on was I was 11, 12, I'm fuzzy on the actual timeline. My father left. He left me and my brother and somehow I got it in my head that it was my fault that he left and I started having suicidal ideation around this. I was so depressed and upset. And my dog? At the time he just stepped in and he would seek me out. He would feel when my energy was off and he'd come find me and sometimes he'd do something goofy. Sometimes he'd just lean into me or just be right next to me and he just knew what I needed. I didn't know what I needed, but he did. So that was the first big event. I had more since then. The last big one was in 2017, when my older brother died. I obviously had a different dog. He showed me what energy healing was. I had no concept of this at the time and he just blew my world open because I was grieving my brother. He was like my hero, right, he was the nicest man I had ever known and his leaving was just devastating for me. But what came from that was a realization that I didn't like who I was or how I was showing up in the world. I was like, wow, is this what everybody else sees? Because I sure as heck don't like it, and I decided that I wanted to change that.

Yeah, it is amazing how our dogs kind of pick up on things without us having to say anything, and I think that's what's so kind of so beautiful about our relationships. As a matter of fact, I think we probably do way too much talking and not just enough being, sometimes with our dogs and with others, I think. So I want to explore what we mean when it comes to how our dogs make us better, because I know that a Lot of times people will come to us. You know we've got starlight outreach and rescue that's the umbrella over this podcast. We have a lot of times parents will come to us and say I want to get a dog for my kids because I want them to learn and fill in the blank responsibility, empathy, caring, whatever it is and I think obviously our dogs do teach us that lesson. But what are some of the other ways that dogs make us better? People other than just, you know, being responsible and remembering to feed them?

Oh, one of the biggest ones that I think doesn't get talked about enough and we hear all the time about unconditional love and that we I think we we have a sense of maybe what that is, but I think we still don't really understand the depth of that. It means a whole lot more than just my dog likes spending time with me is Acceptance. We don't talk about the ability or inability that we have in our lives to accept Ourselves, let alone other people, as they are. You know, we're constantly meddling and offering advice right, we're really good at that but we can't just accept someone as they are and realize, hey, this is their journey, you know, and if they ask for my help, then I will definitely give it. But until then, how can I just hold space for them and hold them in the highest regard and dogs do that for us, right, we can get completely grumpy, you know crappy behavior with their dog, and then five minutes later they're like, hey, man, you okay, are you okay? Right, they just accept what you know. Unfortunately, it's not always a great situation, but they accept the situation Right, and we just don't know how to do that. We want so badly for things to be different that we cause our own suffering because we don't, we don't just accept it for what it is. So I think that's such a big, big piece of it and you already touched on something earlier was just being right. The level of presence and awareness that our dogs bring to this, and it's a relationship, what they bring to our relationship and how they hold that space for us. Why can't we learn that faster? Why can't we tap into that a little easier? It's because we think too much. Right, the author Kurt Vonnegut had a sign over his desk in the place where he would sit down and write, and that's the sign said stop thinking so the dogs. They don't have the same type of cognition we do, and thank goodness right.

Yeah, really we cause so much danger.

Yeah, we are. I mean, we're the most dangerous creature on the planet.

That's for sure.

Yeah, and we, we unfortunately, create situations for ourselves because we think our we need to have this, this dominance over everything, attitude, no, and the dogs, they can. They can go from being riled up to being, you know, peaceful and quiet in seconds. Right, we don't. We create a story around it and we, you know, we make our lives miserable and somebody else's life miserable, and we hold a grudge and we judge, and they just don't do all of that. So I think they're constantly, just by what they're being and how they're being, they're constantly showing us a better way to live.

Yeah, I think a big question is are we listening? Are we listening to them when they're sending us these messages? Because I think so many times, like you said, the dialogue, the story, the overthinking things, the Thinking so far in the future, that you're not living in the present, just causes us a lot of misery.

Yeah, no, absolutely. So I think we're not listening. I think part of our ego structure is that you know. Oh me, mighty human big brain, me talk you know yeah and the dog doesn't communicate the same way. We think that we're smarter, better, whatever it is, and they don't have to talk, because they're showing us in a whole bunch of different ways how to be and how can they go from a hundred to zero in ten seconds, flat right, mm-hmm. But we just don't, for whatever reason. Doesn't click with most of us. So we find someone, we find some other way to hopefully work with our emotions, work with our, our feelings and and be able to get a hold of them.

Yeah, that's just so true, I'm just so true. So, other than teaching us to To live in the present, to not be such over thinkers of things, what else have you seen like with the people that you've worked with? What have they been able to tap into with their dogs?

Mm-hmm, great question. So there's a gentleman I work with here locally. I'm in Fort Collins, colorado. There's a guy I work with locally and he reached out to me because he thought I was a dog trainer and I said, well, I'm not really a dog trainer, I'm actually more of a man trainer, but let's get together and just have a conversation. So we did some work with him and his dog and he had all these issues around his dog and Within an hour this guy, he realized, you know, he always other things going on. He was marriage is falling apart, all this stuff going on in his life, and he didn't realize his impact, how he was behaving, his body language, his energy, all that, how that was affecting his dog. So within an hour he was really willing and we dove into some really you know, painful stuff and His energy shifted, his dog completely, just calmed down and finally just went, oh, and just laid with them and he looked me in the eyes. He's got tears streaming down his face. He goes there's nothing wrong with my dog, is there, you know, and it was heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time. But he was willing. Right now everybody's willing to go there.

Yeah, I think the whole issue of the energy, you know, I think people are learning more and more, especially when they are going through situations where they're doing training with their dog let's say they've got a reactive dog We've talked about that a couple of times on different episodes and the energy that you go into those situations with. You're in the park walking the dog, you see somebody. Your dog hasn't quite seen them yet they're walking towards you with a dog and you start creating this story in your head which makes you nervous and anxious and all that energy goes down the leash to your dog and I think people are starting to learn that at least a little bit. But overcoming it, that's a whole nother. That can be a whole nother challenge. But I don't know that they necessarily realize that it is a two-way street in some instances. But I think the impact on the dog's behavior is such a big piece of that lesson.

Yeah.

And that's why, like you said, you train people, not the dogs, because it's the dogs, just being the dog and reacting to the messages that you're sending to them.

Absolutely. We're taught to try and control all these things outside of ourselves right Through our educational system, how our work is structured most people if they work like in an office or whatever, there are all these rules to control things and so we try and manage our way through all that stuff. We don't go inside to figure out hey, does this even work for me? You know why do I have a knot in my stomach? And then we just ignore it and blame Ed in accounting or whatever it is.

Right.

We have an energetic field. You know, it's scientifically proven, folks. This is not new information. We have an energetic field and it emanates from our heart center. So do dogs, so horses. Horses have a huge energetic field. It's amazing. So it's another level of communication that we just don't. Again, we're not aware of most of this and we just don't understand it. You ever walk into a room and you're like ooh hey, you know so thick you can cut it with a knife, kind of thing. You don't know what that is but you're obviously picking up on that. You're sensing something or you see somebody. You haven't seen them and you're like, oh, what's wrong? You don't even have to see their face. You know that's because there's this other thing available to us as far as communication, and we're constantly in each other's energy fields.

Yeah, I think we've talked ourselves out of listening to that sometimes or at least exploring it. Like I always find it dangerous, whether it's reading the energy or reading somebody's facial expression Right, because I'm a communication person, so it's like the nonverbal message is saying this and it's like well, are you sure about that? I think it's okay to read it, but I think you need to explore it, because a facial expression, for example, could mean a lot of different things. Or take an example of somebody shrugging their shoulders. You know so someone shrugs their shoulders at you when you make a suggestion. Is it a shrug meaning I don't care? Is it a shrug meaning Sure, whatever you want to do, you don't really know until you explore it. So I think it's pretty much the same with energy that you want to be cautious about taking it too far, but be aware that it's telling you something.

Yeah, I think if you're curious at all, then look into it. I studied so many different modalities. I trained under all these different amazing people because I was just voracious, right, I got a taste of something and I was like, oh my God, what is this? And I'm still discovering and I'm still learning and I'm just still amazed by people and animals, nature. Hello, you want to spend some time on energy? Just go sit in the forest. There's just so much. You can swing as far to the right or the left as you want. People find something that resonates with them and they're like oh, this is it, this is the one. And I think that is a trap in itself. The hard part is staying open, because if you're closed off, it doesn't matter where you're going. I know energy workers who they think that their way is the only way and this is the only way to help. Anybody ever, and nothing else ever, has worked or will work. They get trapped because it worked for them. Some people like chocolate, some people like vanilla, some like strawberry. It's the same thing with energetic work and any of those things. There's a preference, there's a resonance with it. But be curious and be open to oh my gosh, maybe there's more than just those three flavors.

Yeah, and I think people like you said, once they get it in their head that something is especially if it's work for them, or it's work for my sister, work for my dog they get very prescriptive about it and think that we can just, you know, prescribe that to every single person, every single situation. And there's too many factors to to do that and to try to do that. Sometimes you're just setting yourself up for Well, for failure, for sure in some instances, but also the conflict with the other person who doesn't want to take your prescription or doesn't want to do it your way, or they already know it's not gonna work for them.

Yeah.

Other things that I was thinking about is that I sometimes feel like I'm very not tuned into my own dogs, which sounds bad for somebody who does animal rescue not to be tuned into their own pets. But it ends up being kind of like that old cliche, the cobbler's kids not having shoes. You know you're always the worst offender with with your own pets or your own family or whatever the case may be, but because we have so many animals around here, they get kind of treated as a group as opposed to maybe Spending quality time with them. You know everybody in, everybody out, everybody in your houses, everybody get in the car, everybody come eat, whatever it might be, as opposed to operating individually. And so I don't know that I've necessarily, it may be in recent years reaped some of the other Benefits of how my dogs could be making me a better person. Maybe they have been and I don't realize it. But one of the things that I was thinking about was the whole social element of dogs. What examples or what experiences have you had or maybe even encouraged in some of the people that you work with, to make a person Not necessarily social, like I'm an introvert, I'm gonna be now be an extrovert but to be more of a community member, to kind of get out in the world more.

This is one of my favorite things. If you're someone who actually walks your dog, some people don't not judging, but if you're someone who walks your dog, think about all the things that affords you. Right, so it's some form of exercise. Maybe you take long walks. It's even better exercise. You're out in nature here because you're outside. Right there's there's a tree or something around. Maybe you are in the other people who have dogs, so there's a commonality there. You don't have to like go to lunch, but you can have a talk about that. It gets you out where you can actually pay attention to the world around you instead of being stuck to your Device. It gets you out of your head. Maybe you see something you didn't notice before. So I do a lot of teaching around this and I have a lot of pre-recorded Meditations I give to people that they can do while they're walking their dog. Right, so a dog gives us so much and we just take it for again. Oh, they just need to go poo. Well, there's think about all the other things that are involved just in that process. All right, so there's an intention to get the dog out. Maybe you can set an intention for yourself to be out and Turn your brain off a little bit. Right, stop worrying about that, that big project you're working on, and pay attention to what your dogs doing. You know what, what do they see? What do they smell? You see their nose going crazy. Pay attention to that and get involved in that right that brings you present so quickly. Oh yeah, there's. There's so much available just from spending time with our dogs, but we're overwhelmed, right? You know our computers or phones all these things work families that it's hard for us to pay attention to all of that. So the one of the biggest things is learning how to just slow down for a little bit, just a tiny little bit, and Start to pay attention.

I've learned so much in doing this podcast and just the different guests that we've had on, but two episodes Kind of jump out at me right now. One of them was a recent one we did on the importance of play with dogs and providing them various types of enrichment, and one of the examples that we talked about was the fact that sometimes we do as pet owners who Maybe don't walk our dogs, and we think, okay, I don't need to walk my dog because they go out in the yard and they run around and they do what they need to do. But one of the things that it was cat Cacol. She's a dog trainer and she has a lot of other roles. But she was saying you know, imagine it from your dog's perspective. I go out in the same yard, I see the same tree, I have the same smells, it's the same squirrel over there, it's like it's. It's not super exciting, and that's why when we get our dogs out in public, for those who don't take their dogs for walks and get them out and about, they can get a little bit kooky, because they're just overwhelmed with what's going on, because they're so excited about being in a new and different environment and they need that. You know it's. It's good for them physically, it's good for them mentally. And then the other example that jumps out too is an episode that we did on how fake service dogs hurt people who really need real service dogs. And Donna Mack, her dog, well, is her guide dog, and she said you know, if she took a walk, previously people didn't really pay any attention to her, they didn't engage her in conversation, whatever the case may be. But now, since she's had her guide dog with her, people stop, they have interactions with her. And Alisa Hayes was the other guest on that episode and she was in a really bad car wreck, so she's in a wheelchair a lot and she said it's like I was an invisible person, but now that I have this service dog with me and in my lap, people engage. Do you find that it's the same when you're trying to coach people, that animals basically draw people to us when we have them out and about?

Absolutely. They're magnets for other people who enjoy animals, right? I mean, yeah, people are not approachable by themselves, people are approachable because the others are attracted to that dog, right? So there's this commonality. A common interest is a shared, you know, love and compassion around this other thing. It's unfortunate that we have to go that route to be able to talk to someone, sometimes comma. But the dog helps bridge that gap for a lot of people who just have a hard time making conversation. So I did this exercise for a year where when I was walking my dog, I would wave at every single person coming my direction, right, driving, walking, biking, whatever. And there was this one gentleman. I'll never forget this. He, you know it's nice, you know nice Lexus SUV and always had a suit and tie on and just stoic face. And it was months before one day he finally gave me a little tough guy nod got the nod, Yep. I kept doing it, I kept seeing him, and then one day he kind of smiled and then one day he actually waved before I did and I was like yes you know, it's like we want to be seen and noticed by other people. But then we don't want to be seen and noticed by other people, right, Because we're like I think we're afraid they're gonna see inside and see all our dirty secrets and all that. So it's really fascinating. But a dog speeds up that process. You know another person with another dog. Hey, hey, they got a dog. You know, and maybe your dog is not a reactor type and wants to go say hi. And so just think about what that does, right, that, that, that relationship that they have with you. They're trying to help you share that with others. So it's like it's a dog, let's go say hi. It's not a big deal, right? There are no strangers to the dogs who are well tempered.

Yeah, and from the perspective of, let's say, I'm sitting in the park by myself, just, you know, have my lunch break. I'm sitting there and somebody walks by, you might nod like your car guy, you know, you might nod, you might say hello, but you're probably not going to stop them and start a conversation because that would be kind of weird, right? You're like, hey, how's it going? You know you got anything you want to talk about. It's like weirdo, let me get away. But if that person had a dog, it's like the dog makes it easier for us to initiate contact with, with other humans. So I can say, oh my gosh, your dog is so cute. Or oh, your dog walks so well on a leash. Next thing, you know, the person's more than happy to have a conversation with the weirdo on the bench because that dog is that bridge. So it's just, and even for me. I mean, I talk to people all the time, I run my mouth all the time, I'm a professional speaker, but I hate going to networking events or social events where I don't know people, because I hate that awkward like hi, I'm Amy Castro, what's your name, what do you do? I just I hate that. But if you had a dog with you, I have no problem going over and having a conversation with you, and so I can only imagine if somebody is shy or has some social anxiety or something. I just think that a dog just allows us to make that connection a lot easier than if we don't have a dog with us.

Oh, so true. I've got an acquaintance he's not quite a friend, but it's acquaintance who was agoraphobic. He was afraid to leave the house. His dogs helped him get over that. Now he's like semi-gregorious and he has a position in a mental health group and helping other clients and his story is just fantastic.

Yeah, that's great and the whole agoraphobia thing I feel like and you can probably attest to this better than I can COVID and everything that's happened since 2020. And obviously the world has gone back to a semi-normal version, but I don't think it's the same world that it was before. But I think that period of isolation really did a job on us and I was even talking to another professional speaker friend of mine, the other day. We were co-facilitating a program for our Mutual Business Women's Group and we just kind of got into this discussion, even though we come across as people who are obviously very outgoing and out in the community a lot. But it's like we just kind of rather be at home and I've had to overcome that feeling of I just much rather stay here. Are you seeing that as well with people, that dogs are helping us to kind of break out of the COVID isolation, even whatever is still lingering.

Yeah, yeah, I know COVID was hard on a lot of people. I know that the numbers of animal adoptions went up during COVID and it was fascinating, right, we weren't as connected with the world, and so I think people like I want something else in my life because I'm going bonkers sitting here at home. So again, here come the animals. They step right in to help fill that need and bridge that gap. So, yeah, I see the animals creating more possibilities for us. I see them helping us get out of our shells. So, even though we were in COVID, we still need to get the dogs out, we still want to walk them and we're a little more cautious. Right, maybe they walk shorter and we have to wear a mask and we have to. You know, six feet away and all that, but we, I think they still kept us going in that fashion.

Yeah, definitely so any other ways that really jump out to you or that you see on a regular basis in your work and in your personal life that dogs make us better people. I don't want to miss anything.

Yeah. So I don't know if people are really aware of all the physiological effects of spending time with a dog decreased blood pressure, decreased heart rate, respiratory rate, cortisol levels, which is a stress hormone All of those are available to anyone who's got an animal. You can take that even further if you can learn to turn this thing off a little bit. So I would give people a recommendation to just spend 10 minutes with their animal, not doing anything. Or maybe you have a hand on the dog or a cat or whatever it is, but just 10 minutes and you're both staring out the window. This will do wonders for your nervous system. So they are always again showing us hey, I don't have to be doing something right now, Right, Neither do you Come sit for a minute.

Right, yeah, and it's funny whether it's dogs, because we have a lot of cats at our rescue ranch here and it's interesting how there's certain times a day Like I could not see them all day, but the cats in the evening, if I go back to my well, even sitting in the living room watching TV, they're going to come around, but they really like it when I'm. I think it's because I'm trapped when I'm in bed, like if I'm in bed reading or something like that, and I'll have three or four cats sitting up and around me and finally it's our chance to get here and cuddle and, you know, get some pets or whatever the case may be. And then even this morning I was telling you I had to get up early to feed some bottle baby kittens and we've had some issues with predators in the area because I live out in the country and so I don't like to let my dogs out in the dark where I can't see what's in the backyard, just in case. But once the sun started coming up and it was a little bit light, I went out with my coffee, sat down on the patio, just so I could watch. You know, make sure everybody was okay and they go, they do their business. And then my bulldog, gwenevere, comes and sits next to me and just reaching down and touching that head, it's very relaxing and it is that way to connect, because if I stopped like to you know, drink my coffee, she looks up at me like, okay, you're not touching me, she doesn't even care if I pet her, she just likes having that hand on her.

Yeah, well, it's soothing for both of you.

Yeah.

Right, you know my last dog, darby. He was a little pit bull mix. He's the one that that rescued me after the death of my brother. He would do this thing where he would go to the back door and I'm like, oh, you need to go outside, and I'd open the door and he wouldn't move. He'd just look at me. And then one day I got it. I was like, oh, you're telling me I need to go outside, right, because I was always working on the computer doing something. And he, he was like, yep, so I stepped outside and then it was game on.

So he's all happy now.

Exactly. Well, that was an indicator for me and I was like, oh, he's telling me to take. I need to take a break for myself. You know, go talk to the trees, hang out, whatever, say hi to the hawks, yeah and yeah, that was just this message that hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, oh, you're trying to show me something again.

Yeah, yeah, well, and especially those of us who are working from home with our pets, or even if it's just in the evening and you get on the computer. Whatever you're doing, I feel like I could be sitting here. An hours go by, and not only do my knees tell me when I go to get up that I've been sitting too long, but the pets will come in and kind of be like hey, why are you still back here? Time to come out, time to be with the rest of the world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're fantastic at that.

So I'm starting to think that maybe I probably am more connected and maybe just not as aware of it as I need to be or being in the moment like I need to be. But if somebody else like me is feeling like they're not getting that benefit or not having that connection with their pets and reaping the benefits, do you have any advice for us as to how we can do better, like you said, getting up and getting outside with them, taking walks, but anything else that we can do to reap all these wonderful benefits of our dogs?

Yeah, absolutely. But it just starts with one little thing, right? You don't have to have this laundry list of stuff to do One thing that I recommend for people and say you know, my dog is really connected to this person, but not to me so much. So okay, well, go spend some time with them, and here's what I want you to do Sit with them floor, couch, whatever put your hand on their chest and close your eyes and feel the rise and fall of their breath and see if you can match your breath to that and that's it right. So do this, see if you can do this for five minutes, 10 minutes, and the reaction that I get is like, wow, I calmed down so quickly. I wasn't worrying about work, I wasn't worrying about all these other things, I wasn't worrying about my kids, blah, blah, blah. You know it's a form of meditation. We can do walking meditation. You don't have to sit in front of a candle and a lotus, position on a pillow.

Yeah, that wouldn't be for me. I don't think I could do that.

No, but I think it's pushed that way right, or people think it has to be that way. Have you ever driven somewhere and you don't even remember driving to this place? But you got there and you're like, wow, that was fast. I don't even remember, you know. So that's like a trance state and we can actually create that. We do it all the time we turn on the TV or we get on the computer and, as you said, two hours are gone, so we actually get in this trance state. It's absolutely fantastic. You can do that with your dog. So once we can calm our nervous system down, we're available. Right, we've created more space for other things to come into our lives. So just yeah, just sit and breathe with your dog, close your eyes Maybe you're just listening to them breathe, see if you can match that and go from there.

As long as it's not a bulldog.

Then you have to snort or a pug, oh goodness.

So I know I had mentioned earlier on in the show that you are the founder of the non-profit Sav2.org. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, because I think people would be really interested?

Yeah, thank you for asking. So I took my knowledge that I've accumulated over all these years and what I've done in my coaching practice and created this free model, as it were, for what I'm offering out in the world. Most people have a hard time asking for help, and the people that I coach they're usually high performing in some fashion and they know that they need help and they're willing to ask for it. But most people aren't, and so I'm like well, how can I give this to more people so that they can maybe learn a different way to be and learn their own path to healing? So that's why I created it, so it's literally aimed at saving lives at both ends of the leash. So I've partnered with Street Dog Coalition. I don't know if you know who they are. They do fantastic work. It's a veterinarian started this thing to help provide veterinary care for indigent and homeless people because they came forward to go to the vet. So he's created this whole thing. They're in 60 cities now so I've partnered with them, partnering with shelters and other rescue organizations and no kill Colorado is one of them. So we're trying to keep dogs alive, right. So the other side of that is the men's mental health initiative, and I talk about it more as emotional confidence, because men have a hard time with the mental health thing because there's such a stigma around it. So I teach emotional confidence to men and dogs. We pair them sometimes sometimes they already have a dog, whatever that looks like and just give them a leg up, give them another, another way to look at things. And some people want to go further with that, so I still have my coaching program. Other people maybe that's all they need. So I mean I give away my books for free.

And we'll put all that information up on the show notes so people have access to.

Yeah, this is not this money making venture. I just want to go help more people find their own path to a better life for themselves, so that's why I started it.

That's great. Like I said, we'll definitely put the link up on the website so people can investigate it further.

Awesome.

Any final thoughts or messages that you want to share before we kind of wrap things up, because this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much.

No, you're welcome and thank you. Just everybody out there. Give yourself a little break. You know all these pressures societal, cultural, familial pressures all these things that we think we have to do and be. We really don't. So, whatever you're doing, you're doing a good job. Give yourself a little break. Do something nice for yourself and try to find a way to heal something.

Yeah, do something nice for your dog along the way to.

Yeah, oh, yeah, spoil the hell out of that dog.

Definitely All right. Well, michael, thank you so much for being here with us today and for sharing your wisdom, your experiences. I really hope this reaches the people that need to hear it and really take some more time to be present, to focus on themselves and focus on their dogs and building a better life together. So, thank you so much.

Absolutely, and thank you. Yeah, wonderful program, wonderful program, everybody. You're worth it, you are worthy of love and whatever else, but you got to get to the place where you believe it.

Yeah, yeah, that's the key. It's all in here with people thinking too much. All right, well, thank you all for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk. Please I say it every week Share this with your friends and family, especially if you know somebody needs to hear this especially important message this week. And, like we always say at the end of every show, if you don't do anything else this week, make sure you give your pets a big hug from us.